triplea casualty-selections.

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triplea casualty-selections.

Alberts
First, and most importantly... Thanks to the developers for all that you do. Keep it up!

So... here's the deal.

In a battle, triplea kindly suggest which units you should sacrifice. Usually it suggest that infantry should go first, then armor, then fighters and so forth. The logic is simple. Units that have the lowest defense are the ones who gets selected first. And it usually serves me well. In fact I'm almost always in agreement with triplea, so usually just click my way trough the casualty selection process trusting triplea will do the right thing.

 

However, sometimes this happens:












And when this happens, as far as I'm concerned the game is ruined. I have accidentally sacrificed my most expensive units. My suggestion is that you change the logic behind triplea's casualty-selection-suggestions. The new logic should be: Units that have the lowest cost are the ones who gets selected first.

In sum:

1) Current way  Units that have the lowest defense are the ones who gets selected first.
2) New way  Units that have the lowest cost are the ones who gets selected first.

There are pros and cons with both ways, and in some maps the current logic is perhaps a better fit. But all in all I think the "new way" would more accurately reflect the players mindset.

What do you think?

/Alberts
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Re: triplea casualty-selections.

Alberts
Ok. So I just changed my mind. I think the current logic is better as a default. Don't change it!

But what I'm trying to say is, can you make the auto-suggestions a little smarter and more flexible?
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Re: triplea casualty-selections.

Veqryn
Administrator
In reply to this post by Alberts
sure, you don't want to lose your 15 cost bomber before your 3 cost infantry

but, what about a battle that is close to 50%

or what about losing a 1 defense 10 cost unit, before a 3 defense 6 cost unit?


there are too many exceptions and it is all highly subjective


I suggest that when you are taking casualties, if you have a high cost unit in the battle, you look before you click 'ok'

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Re: triplea casualty-selections.

JayT
I think the best option would be that if the unit with the lowest defense costs more than a unit that is not being selected as a casualty, the game does not automatically choose either unit.  The player must manually choose which unit(s) he wants to sacrifice.  Yet another option would be to add two buttons to the casualty selection screen "Select the cheapest" and "Select the weakest" so that the game will configure the casualties based on the selection.
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Re: triplea casualty-selections.

Johnwilliamson062
In reply to this post by Veqryn
I wanted to bring this up again.

Here is my twist:
I play by E-mail.  Sticks with default or goes out on a limb to pick the casualties.  Last night Phillipines were attacked with 6 fighters and I had three infantry, five fighters, three bombers defending.  With my three bombers I was controlling the Pacific ocean and my opponent knew if he attacked he would lose his fighters, but eliminate my bombers.  I was steamed by the casualty selection, especially considering the default selection almost certainly played into his strategy, but what could I do?

In fairness I was plundering his transports the entire game and I am not sure he would have chosen them as casualties all the time, but battleship/transport integral to next turns plans isn't as bad as bomber/infantry when the infantry is only there to be defensive casualties.

Since we PBEM
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Re: triplea casualty-selections.

zlefin
your opponent violated the standard PBEM rules probably.
I'm not sure what exact rules you're using; and i don't pbem normally but;

the PBEM rules I know are you ask for a casualty list if there's any question as to what order casualties should be taken in.  You can also provide general casualty instructions; like don't sacrifice bombers if the province will easily survive on defense anyways.
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Re: triplea casualty-selections.

Veqryn
Administrator
when playing PBEM/PBF,

IF the situation is not obvious (ie: obvious = infantry then artillery then tanks, etc)

THEN you are required to ask your opponent what their OOL is (order of losses)

If you opponent disregards this, and does a non-obvious battle without asking for OOL, then you have the right to either edit the results or redo the battle
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Re: triplea casualty-selections.

Bung
In reply to this post by Johnwilliamson062
Below is the OOL excerpt from the tripleawarclub.org ladder rules. Granted you're not playing ladder, but as the guys have said "standard" community rules for this is basically the same. You would never have chosen your bombers, so your opponent cheated you in my opinion.

Order Of Losses (OOL)
It is expected that in certain types of battles, an order of losses (OOL) is requested unless both players agree beforehand on something different. These battles include:
Defending multi-national forces
Defending land units where a bomber is present
Defending subs when enemy naval units are present
Defending naval units if more than one type is present
If there is any doubt outside a typical battle, ensure you get an OOL from your opponent before beginning the battle!

Here is some more on OOL protocol:
You MUST ask the defender for an OOL prior to rolling any dice,but after combat movement is completed, if it is a situation that calls for an OOL.
Since combat movement is completed, obviously you MUST go through at least one round of the attack once an OOL has been given.
The OOL is because normally you would sit at same table and during attack the other player would be there to remove units...for example: if you're goal is to kill a transport of the other guy, and then ask for an OOL and he decides he will keep it at all costs knowing eventually he will win out, then the attacker can not then decide he won't attack at all.
The best way to ensure there is no issue here: set up and finish all your combat moves and then send the file back to your opponent and add OOL at the end of the game file and in the e-mail ask for his OOL. Then once they reply, you can begin the combat.
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Re: triplea casualty-selections.

johnwilliamson062
We only play one side per day as it is.  Sending back and forth OOL e-mails would slow us down to half that.  I don't think either of us would play if it was half the speed.  Games already take weeks to play.  We just wrapped up round one of a 1940 Global game and it took a week.  I can't wait until we get into a scramble fighters or not situation.  There are some situations such as the BS/transport that really go either way and it would be hard to come up with a logical selection everyone would be happy with.  Destroying bombers when attacker has "0%" chance of success could be worked around though.  Even if bombers were selected later in all circumstances i think it would be better.

Here is the other problem:
Doesn't the AI use this selection?  This sort of poor selection would seem to be a GREAT weakness in AI to me.
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Re: triplea casualty-selections.

Veqryn
Administrator
you only need to ask for OOL under those circumstances Bung describes, and for such things as scrambling, etc.

it will slow a game down at the start, but after the game gets going you may only need to ask for OOL one or two times per round, since 99% of battles are obvious

it is up to you and your friend how you want to play, we are just suggesting the rules used by the league
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Re: triplea casualty-selections.

VictorInThePacific
In reply to this post by johnwilliamson062
"Doesn't the AI use this selection?  This sort of poor selection would seem to be a GREAT weakness in AI to me."

Yes it does, and in all situations, eg it will throw away its destroyers before battleships even when attacked by subs, or it will throw away its carriers when attacking, so you have to go back and edit many battle results.

But even if you fix this, the AI is still not intelligent.
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Re: triplea casualty-selections.

TLiciousX
Hi, I'm working on dragging some friends into TripleA.  We've been looking for a game that we can play online at our own pace (take your turn when you want to) and this looks GREAT!

While admitting that I've only barely played TripleA (have played a decent amount of a certain WWII game though) I would like it if we could set casualties to 'auto-remove'.  I only want to be bothered by the game when it is my turn.  

Is there any news on such a setting?  There's an old 2010 post about maybe putting a timer in; that would be dope and satisfy my purpose as well as others.

I see that PBEM games necessarily entail 'attacker chooses casualties'.  If I were to host the game from my PC, is there a settings.ini or config.ini that could be modified to 'attacker chooses casualties'?

Keep in mind I only plan to play with friends, so trust is not an issue.
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Re: triplea casualty-selections.

Veqryn
Administrator
before you start your game, just agree with everyone you are playing with that the current player (the attacker) will choose casualties unless the casualties are non-obvious
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Re: triplea casualty-selections.

aaalafayette
Administrator
In reply to this post by Alberts
@Alberts, How about a "are you sure" warning to pop up when the cheapest units have not been selected? We can also have a setting on that box to never show that confirmation again, so we'll have the same behavior as before for those that are bothered by the extra confirmation.

@TLiciousX PBEM is good if you want verified dice. If trust is there to not re-roll dice, you can do lobby games and pass around save games. Whoever has the save can advance the game until it is not their turn anymore and email the save. Then if you find time again to play together you can pick up in the lobby and play live again.