offensive aa ability

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offensive aa ability

Veqryn
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it has been requested since i made aa-guns cool, to have the ability for offensive (ie: attacker) aa guns

i'm going to try to do it, but I need to work out some details first

we have the following AA properties right now:

        private boolean m_isAAforCombatOnly = false;
        private boolean m_isAAforBombingThisUnitOnly = false;
        private boolean m_isAAforFlyOverOnly = false;
        private boolean m_isRocket = false;
        private int m_attackAA = 1;
        private int m_attackAAmaxDieSides = -1;
        private int m_maxAAattacks = -1; // -1 means infinite
        private int m_maxRoundsAA = 1; // -1 means infinite
        private String m_typeAA = "AA"; // default value for when it is not set
        private HashSet<UnitType> m_targetsAA = null; // null means targeting air units only
        private boolean m_mayOverStackAA = false; // if false, we can not shoot more times than there are number of planes
        private boolean m_damageableAA = false; // if false, we instantly kill anything our AA shot hits
        private HashSet<UnitType> m_willNotFireIfPresent = new HashSet<UnitType>(); // if these enemy units are present, the gun does not fire at all


                                <property name="Always on AA" value="false" editable="true">
                                                <boolean/>
                                </property>
                                <property name="Roll AA Individually" value="true" editable="false">
                                                <boolean/>
                                </property>
                                <property name="Random AA Casualties" value="false" editable="false">
                                                <boolean/>
                                </property>
                                <property name="Choose AA Casualties" value="false" editable="false">
                                                <boolean/>
                                </property>
                                <property name="AA Territory Restricted" value="true" editable="false">
                                                <boolean/>
                                </property>
                                <property name="Force AA Attacks For Last Step Of Fly Over" value="false" editable="false">
                                                <boolean/>
                                </property>
                                <property name="Multiple AA Per Territory" value="true" editable="false">
                                                <boolean/>
                                </property>



Now I think most of these can be applied to both offensive and defensive aa guns, or are irrelevant to the situation of combat.

So lets go through what offensive aa guns would mean:

1. only would mean something in normal "combat", therefore would need isAAforCombatOnly turned on.  No such thing as offensive aa during movement or during strat bombing.

2. would fire before defensive aa guns, in keeping with triplea/a&a tradition of having offense always fire first.

3. would not allow return fire by killed defenders, in keeping with my person tradition of not giving myself way too much extra work

4. casualty choice would use whatever global property is set (ie: choose/random/individual). all other global properties are meaningless (always-on/restricted/last-step/multiple).

5. would use some of the same combat properties as defensive aa guns, such as "typeAA", while having new unit properties for others, such as "offensiveAttackPowerAA" or something.

That last point is important because it sort of determines just how much work vs how customized they are.  
It would only really matter in a situation where you had a unit which is BOTH an offensive AND a defensive AA gun type of unit.  (in situations where it is just one, then it is 100% customizable. in situations where it is both, it must be partially similar for both)

The points that I could potentially make new abilities for are:
        attackAA = 1;
        attackAAmaxDieSides = -1;
        maxAAattacks = -1; // -1 means infinite
        maxRoundsAA = 1; // -1 means infinite
        typeAA = "AA"; // default value for when it is not set
        targetsAA = null; // null means targeting air units only
        mayOverStackAA = false; // if false, we can not shoot more times than there are number of planes
        damageableAA = false; // if false, we instantly kill anything our AA shot hits
        willNotFireIfPresent = new HashSet<UnitType>(); // if these enemy units are present, the gun does not fire at all


I think the bare minimum, which is all I plan to do unless I am persuaded otherwise, is to have just these 2 new abilities:

    offensiveAttackAA = 0;
    offensiveAttackAAmaxDieSides = -1;





so, think about it,

thx,
veqryn

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Re: offensive aa ability

Veqryn
Administrator
This post was updated on .
oh and another thing,

right now, if my AA gun hits your Bomber, your bomber dies and does not get to fire back

however, what if we have 2 aa guns facing off, and they can both target each other?

if my offensive aa gun, hits your defensive aa gun, should your defensive aa gun have a chance to fire back or not?

i think it should, though it will require me to change some code...
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Re: offensive aa ability

Zim Xero
This post was updated on .
Sounds OK.  IF attack AA is going to allow a list of viable targets, then it might not be necessary.  If fighters are given 1d6 AA on attack and on defense versus other air units, then it would be like a submarines attacking regular ships... unless you code in automatic return fire for the casualties.  I dont see a big difference, so I would not bother with the additional complexity.   The coder could always compensate through balance.. giving the surviving defending fighters  2d6 AA would balance this and be quite interesting.

EDIT: I see you already coded simultaneous fire.  Thats cool too.
'thats the way it is' makes it neither desireable nor inevitable
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Re: offensive aa ability

hepster
Everything looks good.

The question as to whether 2 A.A. units facing off against one another should allow both a shot prior to casualty selection is a good one.  I am trying to run the concept through my mind.  I don't see an issue with either if it is consistent.  If adding a retaliation strike for a casualty is going to be a great deal of work then it may be not be 100% necessary since once a game is setup that particular feature can be accounted for via unit quantities and strengths.

I'd say work with whatever is achievable.

I like really like all the other features as they are described.

Can't wait to see the new version.
“A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition”― Rudyard Kipling
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Re: offensive aa ability

Veqryn
Administrator
In reply to this post by Veqryn
so here is what i have so far:

you can now specify how many rounds you want your aa gun to fire in (default = 1 round only)

you can now specify offensive attack and dice side values for your aa gun

aa killed by other aa will get to return fire their aa shots, but after all AA is done firing then casualties will be removed from the game


took me all day
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Re: offensive aa ability

captaincrunch
Sounds cool. Gets me wondering what/if any changes would ever be made to the board game version of this game that came from modifications of the computer version of the game. If ever the board game got so complex with all these options like the computer version has it brings to mind an old game I've played called Squad Leader. Anyone ever play it? It was so tedious and had a huge rule book and the pieces were too small but was an intricate and interesting war battle board game. Squad Leader lacked swiftness and atmosphere and artistic flair like the Axis and Allies board game version has but it was intricate and intelligent. I still would love to see how the Axis and Allies board game develops because its still my fav and a classic.
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Re: offensive aa ability

HuskerMike
On the offense, AA guns were used against armor due to their great optics.

What if you attacked 10 planes with 1 AA? Does the AA get to shoot at all of them first?

When using the AA units on the offense, they should hit regular units in regular combat only, not air in pre-combat.

And if this is the case, the defender's AA should be able to fire both in the pre-combat air phase and then again in the regular combat phase. It should be a 2-1-1 in regular combat & movement.
Go Big Red!
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Re: offensive aa ability

Zim Xero
all of that can be done and is a configurable option for maps/games.
'thats the way it is' makes it neither desireable nor inevitable
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Re: offensive aa ability

Veqryn
Administrator
In reply to this post by HuskerMike
when i am referring to the word "AA" i do not actually mean "anti-aircraft"

instead, i am referring to a unit that has the ability to shoot at the start of a battle round, and who's casualties do not get to fire back (unless they also have an AA ability)

due to how customized this part of the engine has become, it could be something like this:

commando
fires 3/6 at up to 1 HQ or CommCenter on attack, as an "AA" ability
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Re: offensive aa ability

HuskerMike
Ahhh, I see.

Have you thought of making the combat phase uniform for land & sea combat. Each combat phase would be:

AA phase
Stealth phase
Regular phase
Stealth phase
Regular phase
Stealth phase
Regular phase
etc.

Each unit would have:
AA? yes or no
Versus? Air, Land, Sea
Position? Attacker, Defender, Both
Stealth?
Anti-Stealth?

This would keep the game similiar to current rules, but allow interesting developments. Examples:

Modern War Tactical Nuclear Warheads (1-1-1, cost 25 or not buildable)
AA: Yes
Versus: Land
Position: Both

Yeomen Archers (1-1-1, cost = not buildable)
AA: Yes
Versus: Land
Position: Both

Japanese/Vietnamese Tunnel complexes (0-1-0, cost = 10?)
AA: Yes
Versus: Land
Position:Defender

Japanese Kamikaze (1-0-4, cost 20)
AA: Yes
Versus: Naval (BB's & CV's should be 2-hit. Transports and smaller ships would be vulnerable)
Position:Attacker

Commando (2-0-2, cost = 5)
Stealth: Yes

Partisan (0-1-1, cost = 2)
Stealth: Yes

For land units, "Hide" or "Melt Away" = "Submerge". The hard part would be making the area uncontrolled and factories unproducible (idea: Factory works, but territory worth 1 less or half).

These are just a few possibilities and the values can be adjusted to fit a particular game.

This would give a wide range of possibilities for map-makers and mod-makers to explore.

This game is so cool.

Go Big Red!