e40/g40 style maps

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Re: e40/g40 style maps

Maherdogg
relevance?  Right.  Troll.

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Re: e40/g40 style maps

Toronado3800
In reply to this post by Maherdogg
G40_1026_Color_Blue.png

Europe should be more attractive now.  It is more of an enlarged direct trace.  Oddly enough enlarging a trace isn't the easiest thing to do w/o getting thicker lines..  Still got a little bit more room in England, and Gibraltar.
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Re: e40/g40 style maps

Veqryn
Administrator
looks good, i especially like how you made france, spain, and italy, and much of europe look "normal" again.  England, and scandinavia could use some love though.

I do not care so much for proportional accuracy as I do for the correct shape of a territory.

africa still looks horrid, but i'm not sure how you can fix that one.... perhaps shrink it a little bit, then you will have room to fix the shape?  you have artist's discretion
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Re: e40/g40 style maps

rockrobinoff
"I do not care so much for proportional accuracy as I do for the correct shape of a territory."

Yes, this is an excellent compromise between realism and playability. Keep the shape for aesthetics, and shrink and enlarge freely (within reason) when it comes to low and high traffic areas respectively.

Excellent job on the map thus far Tornado, and many thanks for your contribution.
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Re: e40/g40 style maps

Pulicat
In reply to this post by Toronado3800
Great job, tornado! Keep up the good work.

I'd be happy to help with reliefs once the baseline is finished.

I also wonder where there are so many Siberian (and Mongolian) territories in E/P40? Do they ever experience any traffic?

puli
how now brown cow?
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Re: e40/g40 style maps

Toronado3800
G40_120610.png

Well, here is the latest update.  Africa still looks funny.  

What is the next step?  I tried running the map maker and got one heck of an error.
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Re: e40/g40 style maps

hepster
I've got an idea for those of you working in this.  I have a map of the world that I have been working on.  Its highly detailed with plenty of space.  I enlarged Europe, Britain and the Island of Japan.  Otherwise its almost a perfect rendering of the world.  I could take it and re-draw it with the land and sea connections that are on the map above.  

“A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition”― Rudyard Kipling
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Re: e40/g40 style maps

rockrobinoff
In reply to this post by Toronado3800
hey tornado

great map. i can see what you mean about africa - you have run out of space to fix it. i think it might require a complete redraw as a result, which is rather unfortunate. that said, if i were in charge, which i am not, and that is for the best, i would say: this map is great the way it is, and nevermind about africa.
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Re: e40/g40 style maps

Toronado3800
With the eargement of Europe for the purpose of gameplay Africa will look stupid.  Tracing to make an exact copy isnt beyond me, look at North America, but Africa isn't particularly attractive on the board either.

In a multi player game I hate having to zoom in and out to see either how many land units are in Belgium or how many transports can the US get there.

That correct map is a thing of Beauty. No continents have moved north and south or any of the concessions to game play.  On a board I say we would be best left with a distorted map where Germany is large enough to fit our plastic pieces. On the internet we have a choice.

Either way the limitations of my board are annoying me. With my good friends, I should say my friends who are good at the game, it takes me three or four nights to beat them. We all have families so that can be two or three weeks. We have a serious backlog of games!

Tonight I am going to take another stab at the map creator with my drawing if no one comes over to play. I will set all air and sea movements +1 and that should do more or less if I police myself.

If the community prefers the correct map no hard feelings. When Africa looks funny it makes it even tougher for the Allies to care about fighting for instead of going straight after Rome or Berlin.
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Re: e40/g40 style maps

Toronado3800
When running the center picker on the map below is the error I get.  The map loads but looks mostly like a blue ocean grid with just a little bit of white land in the upper left corner.

If it doesn't show this is my first time through this lol.

Probably something I have done wrong not a problem with the program.

C:\>java.exe -Xmx455m -classpath "C:\Program Files\TripleA\triplea_1_2_5_5\bin\t
riplea.jar" util/image/CenterPicker
Select the map
Exception in thread "Basic L&F File Loading Thread" java.lang.NullPointerExcepti
on
        at java.util.Arrays$ArrayList.<init>(Unknown Source)
        at java.util.Arrays.asList(Unknown Source)
        at sun.awt.shell.Win32ShellFolderManager2.isFileSystemRoot(Unknown Sourc
e)
        at sun.awt.shell.ShellFolder.isFileSystemRoot(Unknown Source)
        at javax.swing.filechooser.FileSystemView.isFileSystemRoot(Unknown Sourc
e)
        at javax.swing.filechooser.FileSystemView.getShellFolder(Unknown Source)

        at javax.swing.filechooser.FileSystemView.getFiles(Unknown Source)
        at javax.swing.plaf.basic.BasicDirectoryModel$LoadFilesThread.run0(Unkno
wn Source)
        at javax.swing.plaf.basic.BasicDirectoryModel$LoadFilesThread.run(Unknow
n Source)
Map : C:\Documents and Settings\Marc\Desktop\AAA Global 40\G40_120610.png
Select the Polygons file
Exception in thread "Basic L&F File Loading Thread" java.lang.NullPointerExcepti
on
        at java.util.Arrays$ArrayList.<init>(Unknown Source)
        at java.util.Arrays.asList(Unknown Source)
        at sun.awt.shell.Win32ShellFolderManager2.isFileSystemRoot(Unknown Sourc
e)
        at sun.awt.shell.ShellFolder.isFileSystemRoot(Unknown Source)
        at javax.swing.filechooser.FileSystemView.isFileSystemRoot(Unknown Sourc
e)
        at javax.swing.filechooser.FileSystemView.getShellFolder(Unknown Source)

        at javax.swing.filechooser.FileSystemView.getFiles(Unknown Source)
        at javax.swing.plaf.basic.BasicDirectoryModel$LoadFilesThread.run0(Unkno
wn Source)
        at javax.swing.plaf.basic.BasicDirectoryModel$LoadFilesThread.run(Unknow
n Source)
Polygons file not given. Will run regardless
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Re: e40/g40 style maps

Toronado3800
Just tried it again and noticed the error pops up before I load the map.  Hmmmm, what did I do.  Got an old Windows XP machine here....

"
C:\>java.exe -Xmx350m -classpath "C:\Program Files\TripleA\triplea_1_2_5_5\bin\t
riplea.jar" util/image/CenterPicker
Select the map
Exception in thread "Basic L&F File Loading Thread" java.lang.NullPointerExcepti
on
        at java.util.Arrays$ArrayList.<init>(Unknown Source)
        at java.util.Arrays.asList(Unknown Source)
        at sun.awt.shell.Win32ShellFolderManager2.isFileSystemRoot(Unknown Sourc
e)
        at sun.awt.shell.ShellFolder.isFileSystemRoot(Unknown Source)
        at javax.swing.filechooser.FileSystemView.isFileSystemRoot(Unknown Sourc
e)
        at javax.swing.filechooser.FileSystemView.getShellFolder(Unknown Source)

        at javax.swing.filechooser.FileSystemView.getFiles(Unknown Source)
        at javax.swing.plaf.basic.BasicDirectoryModel$LoadFilesThread.run0(Unkno
wn Source)
        at javax.swing.plaf.basic.BasicDirectoryModel$LoadFilesThread.run(Unknow
n Source)
"
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Re: e40/g40 style maps

Wisconsin
Not sure, but it has something to do with the graphics user interface. The L&F in the error message stands for "Look and Feel" which is like the 'skin' of the user interface.
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Re: e40/g40 style maps

Toronado3800
Updated my Java just to kill time.

"Look and Feel", you set me on the right track - I found an odd option on the image properties screen which said the .png file was protected since it came from a different computer.  Since it was MY other computer through this website I unclicked it.  Out of simplicity I just entered in two country names, Germany and Russia, instead of them all and now made it further.

This is the newest error.  Using the search feature I can find a few similar folks have encountered but not this early.

C:\>java.exe -Xmx357m -classpath "C:\Program Files\TripleA\triplea_1_2_5_5\bin\t
riplea.jar" util/image/CenterPicker
Select the map
Map : C:\Documents and Settings\Marc\Desktop\AAA Global 40\G40_120610.png
Select the Polygons file
Polygons file not given. Will run regardless
Exception in thread "AWT-EventQueue-0" java.lang.NullPointerException
        at util.image.CenterPicker.mouseEvent(CenterPicker.java:416)
        at util.image.CenterPicker.access$100(CenterPicker.java:30)
        at util.image.CenterPicker$2.mouseClicked(CenterPicker.java:153)
        at java.awt.Component.processMouseEvent(Unknown Source)
        at javax.swing.JComponent.processMouseEvent(Unknown Source)
        at java.awt.Component.processEvent(Unknown Source)
        at java.awt.Container.processEvent(Unknown Source)
        at java.awt.Component.dispatchEventImpl(Unknown Source)
        at java.awt.Container.dispatchEventImpl(Unknown Source)
        at java.awt.Component.dispatchEvent(Unknown Source)
        at java.awt.LightweightDispatcher.retargetMouseEvent(Unknown Source)
        at java.awt.LightweightDispatcher.processMouseEvent(Unknown Source)
        at java.awt.LightweightDispatcher.dispatchEvent(Unknown Source)
        at java.awt.Container.dispatchEventImpl(Unknown Source)
        at java.awt.Window.dispatchEventImpl(Unknown Source)
        at java.awt.Component.dispatchEvent(Unknown Source)
        at java.awt.EventQueue.dispatchEvent(Unknown Source)
        at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpOneEventForFilters(Unknown Source)
        at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEventsForFilter(Unknown Source)
        at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEventsForHierarchy(Unknown Source)
        at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEvents(Unknown Source)
        at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEvents(Unknown Source)
        at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.run(Unknown Source)
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Re: e40/g40 style maps

Veqryn
Administrator
In reply to this post by hepster
honestly hep, mercator projections are more ugly than larry harris's 1940 world map....
i mean.... look at the size of china and india compared with russia on that map, not to mention antartica.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Map_projection

Here is a small sample of projections,

starting with my least favorite, the awful Mercator Projection:  (do not use this one!)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercator_projection



As you can see, the image is much more distorted than the actual size and shape of the actual world:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goode_homolosine_projection



now, here are 2 of my favorite ones with curving parallels:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_der_Grinten_projection



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winkel_Tripel_projection   (this one is used by national geographic for their maps)



Now, here are my 3 favorite ones with straight parallels:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robinson_projection    (this one used to be used by national geographic)



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_VI



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kavrayskiy_VII




Now, assuming when you make the map you cut off Antarctica (please don't leave antarctica in the map), then any of these last 5 should make a good looking, proportional map.  You may have to enlarge Europe in any map that you make, since Europe is proportionally too small in all projections compared with the amount of action there.  


A good map is the one used for Civ4's mod, Rhye's and Fall of Civilization.  He used a Robinson projection that he modified to make europe larger.
http://rhye.civfanatics.net/pages/civ4-Earth-description.php

"As it isn't a rectangle, it must be cut. The parts left out are just a slice of ocean (there's plenty of ocean anyway), parts of Alaska and Greenland, and the poles (CIV maps feature ice caps, so it's ok). New Zealand was re-added later.
Further improvements include the connection between Alaska and the eastern tip of Asia (obtained stretching the 4 corners), shrinking the oceans size, and enlarging Japan and England for gameplay reasons."

thanks,
veqryn
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Re: e40/g40 style maps

Prussia
Umms Veq, you forgot that Big World and Global War are both almost perfect projection maps to sale. I made my relief of Big World by simply taking google map images and scaling them :)
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Re: e40/g40 style maps

Toronado3800
In reply to this post by Veqryn
Agreed.  Africa is still ugly.

I propose instead of reinventing the map AND having to go through the trouble of making even more oddly shaped sea zones than we have we just resize Africa.  



Assuming I can make the African territories fit in this type of Africa outline would it be acceptable?  I might have to bend Morocco out a bit to get close to Gibralter.  Morocco would also move south west.

Just the big Europe I think is both pleasing for game play and creates problems.  
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Re: e40/g40 style maps

Veqryn
Administrator
In reply to this post by Prussia
@ prussia
i was referring to hep's map, though i have seen a good number of other maps that are pretty distorted too...

personally i think ww2v3 is a pretty awesomely shaped map, and big world is not that bad, though russia is probably bigger than it should be.  

That is always the problem, the distortions make things closer to the poles look much much bigger.  Russia, Norway/Sweden/Finland, upper Canada, Greenland, and Antartica all get freaking huge & ugly.  


@ tor
Its up to you what you want to do.  I could use the one of the map makers utilities to capture the black&white map out of ww2v3, then give it to you if you would like to go that route.  All you would have to do is fill in the territory borders within the continents.  However, you would have to re-do pacific.
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Re: e40/g40 style maps

hepster
Veqryn,  it's not a big deal I was just trying to offer help.  I was simply offering it up as I could re-arrange the territory outlines with a map I already have.  In my mind the distortion of the far Northern hemisphere and Antarctica isn't as big a deal as the total distortion created in the actual e40/g40 map that barely looks like earth.  Although I do agree with what you are saying about the distortion, it seemed to me that the easiest way to achieve stretching Europe was to use a mercator map.  



“A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition”― Rudyard Kipling
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Re: e40/g40 style maps

Veqryn
Administrator
no offense intended,
i just hate mercators,
not you of course, i love you hep!


personally i think the Robinson Projection is the way to go,
just square it off, just like the picture at the bottom, re-add new zealand, fix where alaska and russia meet, and you have a very beautiful, mostly proportional, map.
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Re: e40/g40 style maps

U-boat
In reply to this post by Veqryn
What was used to make BW? It has to be the most perfectly scaled map.
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