directPresenceTerritories trigger … including all the map sea zones?

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directPresenceTerritories trigger … including all the map sea zones?

Frostion
I am working on a new version of the Star Wars Galactic Map. This will be a new standalone map and it will have some special hero units (like for example Greyhawk Wars has).

I am trying to make a trigger that will open up for purchase if a hero unit is lost in battle (injured). It is the intention that the hero purchase is not possible under normal and starting circumstances. If the hero is a casualty, then the purchase is triggered possible. I can get it to work … the problem is that the trigger only seems to see/count the hero unit if it is located on a land territory. If the hero is on a ship in a sea territory, then it seems to be invisible and the trigger that opens up for purchase is triggered, even though the hero still lives. This seems odd.

Is there something wrong with my triggers? Does someone have an explanation for this?

The top trigger is the one that sees the hero not present and opens the purchase, the bottom one sees the hero and removes the purchase … or so is the intention.

Triggers:
        <attatchment name="conditionAttachmentEmperor-Palpatine_recovers" attatchTo="Galactic-Empire" javaClass="games.strategy.triplea.attatchments.RulesAttachment" type="player">
            <option name="directPresenceTerritories" value="map" count="1"/>
            <option name="unitPresence" value="Emperor-Palpatine" count="1"/>
            <option name="invert" value="true"/>
        </attatchment>
        <attatchment name="triggerAttachment_Emperor-Palpatine_recovers" attatchTo="Galactic-Empire" javaClass="games.strategy.triplea.attatchments.TriggerAttachment" type="player">
            <option name="conditions" value="conditionAttachmentEmperor-Palpatine_recovers"/>
            <option name="when" value="before:Galactic-EmpirePurchase"/>
            <option name="productionRule" value="production_Galactic-Empire:buyEmperor-Palpatine"/>
        </attatchment>

        <attatchment name="conditionAttachmentEmperor-Palpatine_has_recovered" attatchTo="Galactic-Empire" javaClass="games.strategy.triplea.attatchments.RulesAttachment" type="player">
            <option name="directPresenceTerritories" value="map" count="1"/>
            <option name="unitPresence" value="Emperor-Palpatine" count="1"/>
        </attatchment>
        <attatchment name="triggerAttachment_Emperor-Palpatine_has_recovered" attatchTo="Galactic-Empire" javaClass="games.strategy.triplea.attatchments.TriggerAttachment" type="player">
            <option name="conditions" value="conditionAttachmentEmperor-Palpatine_has_recovered"/>
            <option name="when" value="before:Galactic-EmpirePurchase"/>
            <option name="productionRule" value="production_Galactic-Empire:-buyEmperor-Palpatine"/>
        </attatchment>
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Re: directPresenceTerritories trigger … including all the map sea zones?

ZjelcoP
At first glance I see nothing wrong with your triggers.

Would this not do the same thing for you easier and cleaner?

Unit-attachment (from pact of steel 2:)

placement related:
                maxBuiltPerPlayer values: is the number of this unit that can be BUILT by a player.  If they have fewer than this number they can build more, if they have more than this number they can not build more
                                                                                                                [this does not cause excess ones to disappear, and the player can still capture more and more of them if they are capturable]

<option name="maxBuiltPerPlayer" value="3"/>
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Re: directPresenceTerritories trigger … including all the map sea zones?

Cernel
In reply to this post by Frostion
I seem to remeber that the conditions can't see loaded units, while the triggers, instead, can remove them too.

If you verify this is the case, up to you if to propose the developers an engine change.

Hiding units in transports makes no sense to me, but I'm not sure this should be regarded as a bug (tho, I'm inclined to, especially since the different trigger behaviour).

Myself, I think it is very hard to have worthwhile representations of hero units in a TA game, but good luck.

You can also make the heros into infrastructures, thus not able to take normal hits, but still hittable by properly coded AA guns (this is how Towers work in my MEAD).

Again, just memories I've not tested recently.
History plays dice
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Re: directPresenceTerritories trigger … including all the map sea zones?

Frostion
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by ZjelcoP
@ZjelcoP
I did not want the hero units in the purchase window under the map's normal circumstances as they are unique "persons", and not notmal units that there can be many of. But I might have to use the max build feature, and have the hero units included in normal purchase screen,  if there is no other option.

@Cernel
Yes I think that you are right about your suspicions concerning transported units not being "seen" by some of the "presence" territory conditions. At least allied- and direct-presence doesn't see transported units.
I think it is a shortcoming in the programming / bug ... how could it not be? What would the logic be in not counting / seeing transported units?
There are some sea zone variants of the conditionAttachments mentioned in PoS2.xml that one could use (I have not tested them, but they don't seem to be something that I can use).
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Re: directPresenceTerritories trigger … including all the map sea zones?

Cernel
Well, it would be not a bug if such an option was never meant to be used referring to units that may happen to be sea transported.

Also "air battles" units bug off if sea transported, but this is not a bug, as units participating in "air battles" are meant to be only air ones.

Anyway, hopefully a Dev will read this and extend those options as too see units loaded in sea transports too.

Otherwise, not sure if you should make a ticket in Sourceforge or github.

I agree that using a max equal to 1 is dumb.

Also, each time you add units to the production frontier, they will be added at the end. So, I would suggest doing it only if you are doing it for 1 unit in the same frontier, and that unit is meant always to be displayed at the end of the frontier. Otherwise, better triggering different frontiers, like in NWO and NE.
History plays dice
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Re: directPresenceTerritories trigger … including all the map sea zones?

panguitch
Yes, I discovered this with Greyhawk Wars (link). Units on transports are invisible to conditions, but can still be affected by triggers.

I don't see a good reason for this in terms of gameplay. Perhaps it's problematic to fix it for the engine. But I'd love to see it changed.

Greyhawk Wars
TripleA in the original Dungeons & Dragons world

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Re: directPresenceTerritories trigger … including all the map sea zones?

Frostion
@Panguitch + Cernel
That older post explains this “might be bug” very well. I hope if any developers turns up, that they will look at your old post.
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Re: directPresenceTerritories trigger … including all the map sea zones?

Cernel
Bug should not be reported in forum, but in the sourceforge bug tracker.

Admittedly, I'm not sure that's obsolete, due to this github thing.

Anyway, this Topic:

http://tripleadev.1671093.n2.nabble.com/How-and-where-to-post-bugs-tp3076194.html;cid=1455210484077-33

still refers to the sourceforge bug tracker.

You can't expect developers to read every single post in the forum, searching out for bug reports...
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Re: directPresenceTerritories trigger … including all the map sea zones?

panguitch
True.

I've opened a bug report: https://sourceforge.net/p/triplea/bugs/1140/

Greyhawk Wars
TripleA in the original Dungeons & Dragons world

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Re: directPresenceTerritories trigger … including all the map sea zones?

Zim Xero
It is my understanding and experience that units on transports are invisible to both triggers and conditions.   This is not the case with carrier units, however.  If you put a unit called "Turbo" on a transport and set the Turbo unit to give +1 movement to transports... it will not have an affect on transports while carried on a transport.  Put it on a carrier, however, and it will affect transports.
'thats the way it is' makes it neither desireable nor inevitable
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Re: directPresenceTerritories trigger … including all the map sea zones?

redrum
Administrator
Yeah, there is definitely some 'limitations' with conditions in regards to transports. I'm not sure if changes here could actually negatively affect maps that rely on certain conditions not affecting units that are in transports. So would need to think about the best way to tackle this.

I'd personally consider this more of a feature request rather than a true bug. But either way we should track it. We most likely are moving all bug/feature/etc tracking to github (https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/issues) rather than the old SF area (https://sourceforge.net/p/triplea/bugs/) but its still in-progress.