WW1 Map Ideas

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WW1 Map Ideas

Frostion
I agree with Cernel about colors. And also on the unclear / unmistakable borders. When you got a definitive territory layout and a black and white grid version of the map, I can try to mess around with it and see if it can be made more esthetically and unique. It could also be fun to make some map specific and unique unit pics, when you got the final unit list figured out. What kind of look are you looking for?
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Re: WW1 Map Ideas

crazy_german
I would go for an industrial look myself. Gritty and blocky maybe. I agree on those borders, i was planning on doing a major map revision after getting feedback. For the unit list I was going to start with the No Man's Land list. If you want to help with art a better image for gas would be awesome for that map as well
Correctly crazy, disingenuously German
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Re: WW1 Map Ideas

Zim Xero
Here is a WW1 map which has not yet been used.  I made it for use with a planned official version which never happened.  Anyone can use it... however that does not preclude me from also using it in the future.
'thats the way it is' makes it neither desireable nor inevitable
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Re: WW1 Map Ideas

hepster
In reply to this post by crazy_german
The map scale looks good comparative to what you are designing... curious because based on the size of the units the actual division lines between territories looks as though they are like 10 pixels wide.

I'd be interested in seeing the entire map.  I am always looking to help with graphical enhancements.
“A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition”― Rudyard Kipling
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Re: WW1 Map Ideas

crazy_german
I drew the territories out at a fairly small size, then scaled the map. So the borders are needlessly thick, its on the to fix list. By the way those flag images are taken from TWW, with some basic editing. I hope you don't mind

@zim
I would caution anyone using the map to redraw those sea zones, I have played that board and they are not well done at all
Correctly crazy, disingenuously German
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Re: WW1 Map Ideas

hepster
Why would I mind?

I have a rule... never f#*k with a German... never mind a crazy one.
“A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition”― Rudyard Kipling
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Re: WW1 Map Ideas

crazy_german
Alright so here is the map as I'm releasing it. This is just an initial version, I fully intend to make changes



You can see it full size here
CrazyEuropeBeta0.png
I am really tired of editing images so I am releasing as is, with no Atlantic Ocean and a tiny Middle East. Potentially I would like to extend to North America (since it seems people want the USA) and to India, and possible extend it south a bit, or alternatively just warp the map so that I can include the Arabian Peninsula without including all that Sahara (do others know how to do something like that?) Its already really big, area wise its as big as TWW. Right now I'm doing XML stuff, hopefully I can have it up by tomorrow (post angry messages if I don't)
Correctly crazy, disingenuously German
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Re: WW1 Map Ideas

Cernel
Nice map; makes me think of Ancient Times.

Ever if I'm missing intended impassables, the North Africa doesn't seem to have the Qattara depression (El Alamein) realistically represented and the Chott el Djerid depression is seemingly absent too, as the formidable chokepoint of Gabes appears to, instead, have a fair bit of room to maneuver.

There should be a choke point between the Matruh region (the Libycus Nomus) and Lower Egypt, while, in that map, the choke point is too much to the west, in the Marmarica region (there should not really be a chokepoint there, but, since you have many other linearly disposed territories on the coastline, I would say it can stay); also, the city of Gabes should be on the spot of a similar chokepoint.

I don't like seeing Rhodes on the map without seeing any other Aegean islands but Crete, since, for example, Lesbos is bigger than Rhodes. I would keep Rhodes (Italian, of course), especially in such a detailed map, but I advice you to also like represent some other grouped Aegean islands; for example, I would have one territory to represent all the Cyclades together, another territory to represent Lesbos plus others around, etc., since I assume Rhodes is representing all the Dodecanese.

I really hate to see the scars to make sure the islands are clickable. Assuming you are aware of it, I highly suggest you following the convention of having all sea zones ending in "Sea Zone"; so you don't need that graphic hack. Maybe open an issue in GitHub if you want differently named sea zones being supported, and meanwhile stick to the convention. And why the sea zone around Rhodes doesn't have the line?

And, in such a detailed map, I assume you are thinking to include something to represent the Prypjat marshes? I would normally skip them in smaller maps, but, on this scope, it would feel much too unrealistic to assume they don't impact at all; yet, I'm not a fan of having them impassable (but it might still be better than not having them at all).

I suggest you don't put moddable stuff like units stats in the upper-right box; myself I don't like stats boxes in the map, like Napoleonic Empires or 270BC, and I hate when they are making problems to modding and revisions.
History plays dice
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Re: WW1 Map Ideas

crazy_german
I have no issue with adding an island or two, and I do plan to go and improve how those bad connections look. Please feel free to list other places it can be improved. For the choke points in Africa, I didn't think about it a whole lot, I did want more than just a linear path in certain areas, this map is intended to be reused for more conflicts than just ww1 (I do have a version with Spain, Portugal, Norway and Sweden divided up as well). I was going to put something in that box, but perhaps I can release a version of the tiles without it.

Do sea zones need to end in sea zone? All of mine begin with sea zone. For the marshes I was considering adding terrain as a feature, but making some of the territories in that region impassible is also an option. I don't have any impassible mountain ranges either

Correctly crazy, disingenuously German
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WW1 Map Ideas

Frostion
You can still have the box, like a plain decorative background with nothing in it. Then the tiles/map could be ready for whatever box content you want in the form of a transparent png, maybe with map name, alliances, rules info, explanations and stuff. It would also make the map universal and ready for mods and other eras.
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Re: WW1 Map Ideas

hepster
In reply to this post by crazy_german
I like the scale... lots of space.  Will make for a good WWI map.

Great work.  Can't wait to see the release.
“A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition”― Rudyard Kipling
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Re: WW1 Map Ideas

Frostion
In reply to this post by crazy_german
It is going to take thousands of hours to name all those territories. Have you thought about that?
Here is my territory name recommendations for the Danish territories and the waters surrounding them:

• Vesterhavet (Its Danish and means The Western Sea. It’s a simple name, but the only real name for the sea west of Jutland in danish. I guess it was named before the we realized that the world was bigger than Denmark and that other countries might have “western seas” also. )
• Skagerrak
• Kattegat
• Danish Straits (Covering the Little Belt, Great Belt and Øresund)
• Fehmarn Belt (North of Germany. The future bridge in this area will be calle Fehmarn belt bridge)

• Northern Jutland (We have no other name that makes sense for this area.)
• Jutland (This area is in fact also called Northern Jutland in Danish. Alternatively “Mid Jutland” )
• Schleswig (Called Southern Jutland in Danish, especially in the time of WW1.)
• Holstein (Also called Southern Jutland. But only Germans lived here.)

• Fyn
• Zealand
• Lolland
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Re: WW1 Map Ideas

crazy_german
Right now the territories are named

France 01
France 02
France 03
etc.

I was hoping that various people would post a reasonable system for their home territory, and then I could fill in the gaps. However Russia in particular might be left as Russia XX for a while.
Correctly crazy, disingenuously German
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Re: WW1 Map Ideas

redrum
Administrator
@crazy_german - We recently did the rather large territory renaming for WaW so you could start with many of those though you have much smaller territories than it does so will need many more.
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Re: WW1 Map Ideas

crazy_german
@redrum, that is a great idea. I will be releasing without renaming though, because I cannot fix russia currently

It looks like I won't have it out today, I'm still doing territory connections currently. I'm curious if anyone has advice on how to set up units initially? On a map this size its a little bit daunting
Correctly crazy, disingenuously German
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Re: WW1 Map Ideas

Frostion
Basically, I would place units by the hostile borders in a balanced way. Also, every player should have some untis central in their homelands, like in their capitals. Then player would be both a little locked from start, but also able to act and react to other player moves.
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Re: WW1 Map Ideas

hepster
In reply to this post by crazy_german
crazy_german wrote
It looks like I won't have it out today, I'm still doing territory connections currently. I'm curious if anyone has advice on how to set up units initially? On a map this size its a little bit daunting
The Great War might be a good tool for looking at set up.  
“A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition”― Rudyard Kipling
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Re: WW1 Map Ideas

Cernel
In reply to this post by crazy_german
Well, the best way to setup units is being consistent with how the military forces were distributed at that exact point in history. Failing that, and since such datas are not easy to put together (I still suggest you to try hard to have a clue about it, at least for where the battleships were (regarding this, how do you possibly plan to represent the very closely based and highly stalemated confontration between the Italian and Austrian navies, on that map?)), my suggestions are:

1) Having a starting setup in which there are no major dictated fights on round 1 (what about a radical idea of a setup with normally no battles at all on round 1?).
For example, the over 80% lucky shot at Lilybaeum in 270BC LL is crap, and also the traditional killing of most of the UK fleet on round 1 in most traditional TripleA games is rubbish as well (and drives people to play LL, instead of dice, to reduce the bullshit).

2) Especially since you are starting 1 year after the hostilities, having a starting setup that makes some sense with the game itself; meaning a setup at which you might have arrived were the game played up until that point (almost like if it would be a savegame taken after a bunch of played rounds).
For example, I've always found ridiculous the v3 Germans fleet in the Baltic sea that dies in round 1; since it starts in mid 1941 I am like LOL how did that fleet survive till now, were the English just asleep till now and notice it only on round 1 of the game (of course, that fleet was about there and should not just die or round 1, but that is going back to point 1)?

3) Having most forces on the frontline, and almost just the newly produced stuff (on "round 0") elsewhere, which makes the most sense and feels better for gameplay (Historically, most stuff were in the frontline, and territories with no strategic relevance were just empty).
The randomish units dispersion typical of TripleA games, in which you firstly start to making some sense and grouping up in sensible stacks your wildly dispersed units (like if some totally moronic generals were in charge till the start of the game, and just moved around their stuff in random directions), is not representative of anything, but very particular situations, like the Russians forces at the start of Barbarossa.

4) If you are not going with upkeep, having a TUV / production ratio of at least about 12 (I don't think that from 1915 onwards the forces on the field should more than double, like you would end up with the usual about 8 TUV / production ratio setups of most TripleA games (in which you tend to have a lot more units on round 20 than on round 1)).
I've noticed that not-upkeep games tend to stabilise somewhere above 12 TUV / production ratio, on the long run, thus a 12 TUV / production ratio should almost make sure the TUV won't double since start game.

Will this map be Dice default? I believe all should.
History plays dice
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Re: WW1 Map Ideas

hepster
In reply to this post by crazy_german
So where are you at?
“A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition”― Rudyard Kipling
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Re: WW1 Map Ideas

crazy_german
Working on XML, missing connections and stuff like that. Once I am able to play 5 rounds without encountering an error I'll post it.

Here is another pic
Correctly crazy, disingenuously German
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