WW1 Map Ideas

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Re: WW1 Map Ideas

crazy_german
@Cernel,
I have always seen the stronger defense of infantry as representing things like trenches, but I'm not against having a placeable fortification unit to represent extra fancy defenses

@zimZero
I would love to do something like that, I just don't see an easy or clean way to.
Correctly crazy, disingenuously German
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Re: WW1 Map Ideas

hepster
What's the status Germ?

Keep peeking in to see if there are any new teasers!  
“A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition”― Rudyard Kipling
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Re: WW1 Map Ideas

crazy_german
Status is sadly delayed, I am unexpectedly busy these holidays. I will get some more teasers out soon though
Correctly crazy, disingenuously German
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Re: WW1 Map Ideas

Frostion
No hurry. I am 50% done with unit pictures, but have nothing to show off yet. At some point I can show a line of unit pics and we can discuss the pictures, details, colors and so on. But I am also quite busy at the moment.
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Re: WW1 Map Ideas

captaincrunch
@Frostion hey theres a stormtrooper guy on the Jedi Academy star wars game Jawa clan server named Frosty is that you?
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Re: WW1 Map Ideas

Frostion
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Re: WW1 Map Ideas

Navalland
In reply to this post by crazy_german
Big maps have huge unit stacks problem. So I think the best way for prevent huge unit stacks is ;
http://tripleadev.1671093.n2.nabble.com/The-Problem-of-Huge-Unit-Stack-td7594562.html

It should be a option and optional in triplea maps (especially big maps). I don't know are there any codes for implementing this rule.
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Re: WW1 Map Ideas

Zim Xero
Navaland, the problem with making it an option is two-fold:

1) Each game has different stacking rules... obviously our games have none, but making a one-size fits all rule for all triplea games is not ideal.

2) The AI will have a real hard time calculating its options, when stacking rules add to the complexity... currently there is no AI function for this at all.  You basically would need to bloat the code by adding in a condtional line in every one of its steps... that if stacking limit is exceeded, ignore the option.  The problem here.. is whether the AI can create a best alternative option.  Decentralized defense gets into parallel thinking... not a serialized formula.
'thats the way it is' makes it neither desireable nor inevitable
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Re: WW1 Map Ideas

Cernel
In reply to this post by crazy_german
Also, about the colours again, I'm not sure why all maps in TripleA have the Germans pure grey; whether it is because of hollywood and games convincing all the mapmakers that the Germans were pure grey or if it is an actual reasoned choice I cannot say (maybe it is because the Balkenkreuz is black and white, or any other reasons?). To distinguish them with like the Americans cannot be the reason, as a well greyed out green is well distinguishable from a more colourful one.

I think that having the Germans pure grey is ok, since their various colours were usually very greyish, so the pure grey may mean that they are "grey-something", but probably it would make more sense to go with the feldgrau, which basically allows you to set whatever greyish colour with a bit of green more in it.

Or you can take the Wiki advice and use what they call Feldgrau:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feldgrau

Hex triplet = 4D5D53

Personally, I would make it a bit more grey than that, and much lighter, assuming no relief or supporting switching them out and still good, and equalise blue and red, since I'm not sure if the blue was more important than the red (it seems so in the Wiki suggestion); I mean I'd go for:

Hex triplet = 889988

Then, I suggest making the Austro-Hungarians this colour (thus having something like their blue colour while being different with the more blue oriented French):

Hex triplet = 889999

Generally, I would not have the Germans or anyone grey, just because in maps with conquerable neutrals I tend to prefer making the neutral pure grey, and nothing else, as the grey, which can be considered a non-colour, gives me the idea of neutrality and passivity, while everything else is coloured, thus active. Tho, I didn't suggest to have the Germans non-grey in World At War because Germans = grey is so standard around here, for some reasons I wonder. Alternatively, I would reserve the grey for the most important player in the game (which here would happen to be Germany).

I know that in WW2 the Germans were clearly green, normally, but I don't actually know how much greyed out they were back in WW1.
History plays dice
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Re: WW1 Map Ideas

Frostion
In reply to this post by crazy_german
OK. Now I have some free time to do some work on the units.
I have all the units pictures cleaned up and ready to adjust to mono-colored units.
I have a lot of unit types ready, even though all of them might not be used. (I hope they will be included in the units directory so that mods can make use of them).

Infantry, Cavalry and Tank unit pics are all nation unique (and historical correct as far as possible).
Airship, Armored-Car, Barrage-Balloon, Fighter-Plane, Recon-Plane are alliance unique.
Heavy-Artillery, Light-Artillery, Factory, Harbor, Mustard-Gas, Sea-Mine, Entrenchment, Transport, Minelayer, Cruiser, Battlecruiser, Dreadnought are generic pictures.

PS: Unit names are just my working titles. Change names to whatever you like.
PPS: If people are wondering what tank models nations have, this is the models:
Britain: Mark IV
Russia: Vezdekhod
Italy: FIAT 2000
Germany: A7V
Austria-Hungary: Motorgeschütz
France, Ottoman, Neutral: FT17 (Three slightly different looking models)

 (This is the Austria-Hungary models)



@crazy_german
Questions:
• Are these the nations in play on the map?
• What do you think of these test model colors? They seem a bit plastic like. They could be dimmed a bit in “Saturation”, but dimming would also make them less distinct. What color should be applied to what nation?
• Are you still sure about mono-colors? Here is a test of a “true” color units:

(And then there is also the colored “glow” example that Cernel made.
• Should there be shadows or no shadows? Or just a little less / more subtle shadow strength?
• Should one alliance units face one direction and other alliance units the opposite? (I think this would be a good idea)
• Anything else? Anyone share their thoughts?
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Re: WW1 Map Ideas

crazy_german
Frost I love em! I'm a big fan of the detail, I can't say thanks enough. Can you post an example of the boats in different colors? I'd like to see what different nations will look like next to each other, that full color version looks great you might have convinced me.

Your nation list is correct. You didn't list submarines in your unit list, is that intentional?

I'm not sure which way units should face. I see the reasons for all of an alliance facing the same way, but then Russia and German have their backs turned. I wouldn't worry about that, its easy to change later.
Correctly crazy, disingenuously German
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Re: WW1 Map Ideas

Cernel
He probably wants to know because of the shadows, all going the same direction. Would be nice if TripleA would support multi layered images with transparency (thus not gif), also to display as animation on the board (like waving flags for the capitols).

I'm always a fan of multi-coloured units BUT they are not good on relief like the ones of Napoleonic Empires Topographical or Age of Tribes (for those, monocolour iper-colourful images would be a must). Anyways, I'm not suggesting to go for that kind of relief (I don't like green as a background, tho in like Age of Tribes it is fine, because the units and the ownership colours are very colourful, and there are relatively few things to look at).

Basically what I'm saying is that multi-colour units are good or bad relatively to the relief; impossible to judge without having them first.
History plays dice
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Re: WW1 Map Ideas

crazy_german
Units are likely going to be finished before the relief tiles, so we can accomodate the former. Hepps has experessed interest in doing the relief, if its similar to his other maps multi color units should be fine. I'm not planning on initial releasing with relief tiles, because I expect some edits to the map may be needed. I would also like to include railroad lines on the relief image, and I'd like to do some testing before drawing the railroad lines.

For shadows, correct me if I am wrong, but lets say the Russian soldiers are drawn facing left, and later we decide we want them facing right. Couldn't I just open gimp, horizontal flip the image, and now the shadows are on the correct side?
Correctly crazy, disingenuously German
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Re: WW1 Map Idea

Frostion
This post was updated on .
I forgot about the sub. But it is of course included.

And yes, I need the info about what way units should face because of the shadows. If Russia was to face the Germans, and England and France also face the Germans, what way should the Germans face? I would still say that everyone in an alliance should face the same way. This will also make it easy to look at in combat and sea combat, both on the map and it would be more organized to look at in the combat window.

(And I don’t think GIMP can just flip the unit pics and leave the shadows be. At least I don’t know how to do this.)

Here are some ship pictures: (With a bit too long shadows. But that will be fixed)






And here in color with symbols:


Here are some flag-units I made, and I also made all the “flags” and capital markers. I think they are nice. What do you guys think?


It is true that the unit pictures and the map should fit each other, otherwise it could turn out looking horrible. I have made some test land and sea backgrounds. They are “seamless” so they can be used to “fill” any tile graphics:




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Re: davidvcsandersen@hotmail.com

crazy_german
I see what you mean about shadows. I'd think the Centrals facing right (West) and the Entente facing left (East) is best. This will make most areas face each other, except for silly Russians who turned their back.

Correctly crazy, disingenuously German
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Re: davidvcsandersen@hotmail.com

Navalland
In reply to this post by Frostion
No need to change classic triplea unit images or adding flags to units, these are eye tiring, non serious, just suitable to be toys for children.

USA, France, Britain, Italy should faced to right

germany austria turkey russia should faced to left
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Re: WW1 Map Ideas

Frostion
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by crazy_german
So ... are you for non-mono color units? The ones with natural looking colors?

I think this choice would look best, but at the same time I think it will force us to also accept the nation roundels at the foot of all units, just like the example infantry man. Multicolor would also look good with flag-units. I can not see us doing monocolor flags. (even though it could be done). Also I think these multicolor units would require a simple, plain and bright map, so that the units will stand out, a bit like what I tried to give an example of.

Maybe the sea should be a bit brighter than my example.
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Re: WW1 Map Ideas

Frostion
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by crazy_german
btw, should I also ready some units with USA and Red Russian markings/colors? USA units could look like UK units and Reds could look like Russians, but having a red symbol/color instead. USA and Red units could just arrive via trigger. Or is this a trigger free map where history plays out totally different from the time when italy turns Entente and the player takes over? ...
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Re: davidvcsandersen@hotmail.com

crazy_german
In reply to this post by Frostion
Well I ran a map with those images in place of normal units, and its really tiring to look at. The roundels make everything feel so crowded, and WW1 is already a really crowded conflict. I really think players need to be able to at a glance see who owns what units, not spend time trying to find the flags to know. There are a lot of units to move, I'd prefer not to have to scroll over in the territory window too often.

So lets go with mono-colour. I'm fine with the colors proposed by Cernel, with an exception. I don't think that both France and Austria can be blue, because I'm using 2 different colors for ocean, and thats just too much blue.

For russia facing right-left, I'll vote for right but I'll go with whatever is most popular.

Sounds like I need to get the map running already!

Correctly crazy, disingenuously German
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Re: davidvcsandersen@hotmail.com

crazy_german
In reply to this post by Frostion
I won't be including USA or Red Russians in the maps release, but I would be fine including the units in folders for others to use. The only unit I might want but don't see is a camel cavalry.
Correctly crazy, disingenuously German
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