Update: World War 2010 to version 1.3

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
34 messages Options
12
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Update: World War 2010 to version 1.3

Bas71
This post was updated on .
The updated version of World War 2010 is available!

You can get the v1.3.0 map here (copy/paste link in Download Maps field):
http://www.lemairefilm.com/triplea/maps.xml

Or directly:
http://www.lemairefilm.com/triplea/WorldWar2010.zip

Changes:

  • Victory Cities added, also in neutral territories
  • Unit "Helicopter" added, plus new unit images (thanks Rolf Larsson)
  • Some adjustments for better balance (thanks ZjelcoP and Lalapalooza)
  • Graphical updates in units and the map itself
  • Some tehnical issues resolved (thans Wisconsin and Veqryn)
For more details, see the version history below.

The year is 2010.

The nations of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) have moved their troops towards the borders with the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO).

A minor conflict between their respective allies, the Peace and Security Council (PSC) of the African Union and the Union of South American Nations (USAN), will set the world on fire...


Map designed and created by: Bas71.
Many thanks to the people on the tripleadev forum who've helped me out!

About this map:
  • This map is based on the WW2V3 ruleset and units.
  • The alliance organizations in this map, are actual alliances.
  • The production-value per territory is based on the actual GDP, the availability of natural resources and the size and growth of their populations. (Source: the CIA World Factbook, 2009).
  • The starting units are based on the actual military strength of each territory. (Source: - ok, sorry - Wikipedia).
  • Neutral territories are powerful, yet interesting to conquer due to their strategic positions and/or production-values.

Alliances
Shanghai Cooperation Organization North Atlantic Treaty Organization
SCO-PSC (Africa) NATO-USAN (South America)
SCO-CIS (Commonwealh of Independent States) NATO-Europe
SCO-China NATO-America

Strategy:
  • SCO-PSC. At the start of the game, you have a total production-value of 19, but a production-capacity of only 3 units. Invest in at least one additional factory. Protect your west-coast from amfibious NATO assaults.
  • SCO-CIS. Focus on the defence against, or the invasion of Europe. Prevent NATO from occupying the rich Middle-East. Try to occupy the Middle-East yourself.
  • SCO-China. Move your troops towards the neutral South-East Asia and India for additional production-value. Send troops to CIS to support them in their defence against NATO. Build a fleet to rule the Pacific and pose a direct threat to the Americas.
  • NATO-USAN. Your corner of the world is pretty safe, so you can focus your limited means on attacking. The west-coast of Africa is an obvious choice for military expansion.
  • NATO-Europe. Move troops towards the Middle-East to obtain the much needed resources. Build up a formidable force to overrun the CIS on your way to China.
  • NATO-America. Through your base in the United Kingdom, support NATO-Europe in its defence againts CIS. Maintain your powerful fleet in order to reign the pacific. Conquer a high-value territory in Asia to take the battle to China's front-door.
Victory Cities
Shanghai Cooperation Organization: Cairo, Saint-Petersburg, Moscow, Volgograd, Beijing, Shanghai, Hong Kong
NATO: Rio de Janeiro, Berlin, Paris, Rome, Los Angeles, New York, London
Neutral: Ar Riyad, New Delhi, Tokyo, Sydney

Land Units
Unit name att def mov PUs special abilities
Infantry 1 2 1 3 attack +1 with artillery
Artillery 2 2 1 4 gives support to infantry
Armour 3 3 2 5 can blitz
AAGun 0 1 1 6
Factory 0 0 0 15

Air Units
Unit name att def mov PUs special abilities
Helicopter 4 3 2 8 can land on carrier
Fighter 3 4 4 10 can land on carrier
Bomber 4 1 6 12 strategic bombing

Naval Units
Unit name att def mov PUs special abilities
Transport 0 0 2 7 transports 1 land unit + 1 infantry
Submarine 2 1 2 6 can sneak attack
Destroyer 2 2 2 8 detects submarines
Cruiser 3 3 2 12 can bombard
Carrier 1 2 2 18 transports 3 helicopters or 2 fighters, can take two hits

Technology
Air/Naval Technology Land/Production Technology
SUPER SUBS- subs attack at 3 IMPROVED ARTILLERY SUPPORT- artillery support 2 infantry
JET POWER- helicopters attack at 5, fighters attack at 4 ROCKETS- AA conduct rocket attacks for 1d6 damage to production
IMPROVED SHIPYARDS- naval units are cheaper PARATROOPERS- each bomber may carry 1 infantry into combat
AA RADAR- AA hit on 2 or less INCREASED FACTORY PRODUCTION- factories produce 2 additional units, repairs 1/2 price
LONG RANGE AIRCRAFT- aircraft range increased by 2 WAR BONDS- collect an 1d6 extra PUs each turn
HEAVY BOMBER- roll 2 dice for each bomber attack MECHANIZED INFANTRY- tanks may carry 1 infantry each for 2 spaces

Version history:
  • 1.0.0: first public release.
  • 1.0.1: territory names aligned, aaGun for Brazil, Low Luck by default off, connection Sea Zones 35 - 38 fixed.
  • 1.1.0: Victory Cities added, incl. victory conditions Total Victory (18 cities), Honorable Surrender (15 cities, default), Projection of Power (13 cities). New unit "helicopter" (movement 2, attack 4, defence 4) added. Strategic bombing now affects unit production. Unit images updated. Bug fixes: empty neutral territories can be occupied, shipyards work correctly. Balancing: 1) Production value of CIS one up with two territories of 2 PUs - for new factories - and Central Russia down from 5 to 4 PUs. 2) Redistributed units in South-East Asia to make the march from China to India more difficult. 3) India from 19 PUs to 15 PUs production value, for gaming balance in the long run. The Indian territories are now unfortunately no longer accurately valued. 4) Neutral units in the Pacific redistributed to make some territories easier Korea, Taiwan) and others more difficult to conquer (mainly Japan). 5) Fleet of China strengthened by replacing a destroyer by a battleship. 6) Fleet of Thailand-Vietnam moved from Sea Zone 36 (east side) to Sea Zone 37 (south-west side). 7) Fleet of Europe strengthened by three additional units, in accordance with the actual fleet strength. This also prevents Germany from being conquered bij CIS in the first round. 8) Two units from Greece stationed in Germany. 9) PSC territories: one PU taken from Ethiopia (from 2 to 1) and added to captitol Egypt-Sudan (from 3 to 4).
  • 1.2.0: see the rest of this post!

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: World War 2010 - the US vs China - version 1.1

Bas71
... oh, and of course, tips, tricks, issue- and bug-reports, comments, ideas for changes or any other feedback is very welcome!!
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: World War 2010 - the US vs China - version 1.1

Veqryn
Administrator
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Bas71
i had a look at it, here are my thoughts:

infantry has 2 supportable attachments, not sure why, but you can delete one of them

helicopters might be better with 3 defense instead of 4 defense, to show that they can not defend a carrier as well as fighters can
helicopters also get really powerful after someone unlocks long range air.  there is no real way to balance that out without effecting helicopters without the tech.  Perhaps just a simple rule: no tech purchases on first turn?  that would at least delay tech a turn.
I also highly highly recommend moving tech activation to after the placement.  You can see an example of this in the ww2v4 map.  Basically, you move tech activation to right before the end-of-turn delegate for each nation.  The reasoning behind this is that anything you purchase should not have an effect until the end of the turn.  Just like how you can purchase a tank, but can not put them on the board til the end of the turn, you can not put tech on the board til the end of your turn also.  

some of your properties do not match the standards
"no economic victory" does not exist anymore for example


also not sure why there is no bidding step or bidding options
this is not needed of course, but since it is not hard to have it i don't see why they aren't there

also, you are missing this property:

<property name="maxFactoriesPerTerritory" value="1"/>

i believe it defaults to 1 anyway, but you should include it


also curious why LHTR heavy bombers is not editable, and why blitzing neutrals is turned off.  


and lastly, the helicopter unit looks very pixelated.  i suggest doing some after effects on it, like anti-aliasing, and a small drop shadow.



anyway,
if you add the maxFactories property, remove the no-economic-vict property, and delete 1 of the 2 artillerysupportables from infantry
then i will upload it to the eb list
(i would also like a better helicopter graphic, and answers to the above questions, but those are not required, only the fixes are required)

thx,
veqryn


edit:
just thought i'd add that the map looks great, and the xml is very high quality, and that i am very very happy to see that you actually did some bug testing and saw that helicopters_lr_jp.png was needed for example, so i don't have to tell you that :)
perhaps you can add some relief tiles?  not much work is needed, just a semi transparent texture would be nice to start.

edit2:
it would be cool if you made bomber's carriercost=4, that way you could load a bomber and a heli up on a carrier.  you could also make fighters carriercost=2, but that might make helicopters less attractive.
also, i think carriers should be either 1/1/2 or 0/0/2, because currently you are allowing them to load 3 helicopters, which is pretty powerful.  by decreasing their defense by 1, you encourage more offense, which is more fun.
Please contribute to the TripleA 2013 donation drive:
http://tripleadev.1671093.n2.nabble.com/2013-TripleA-Donation-Drive-tp7583455.html
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: World War 2010 - the US vs China - version 1.1

Bas71
This post was updated on .
Hi Veqryn, thanks! I´ve updated the map with your suggestions. Version 1.1.1 is now available for download from:

http://www.lemairefilm.com/triplea/maps.xml
and
http://www.lemairefilm.com/triplea/WorldWar2010.zip

Changes:

infantry has 2 supportable attachments
- fixed

helicopters might be better with 3 defense instead of 4 defense
- i agree, done

moving tech activation to after the placement
- indeed, makes more sense, done

"no economic victory" does not exist anymore
- fixed

also not sure why there is no bidding step or bidding options
- added

missing <property name="maxFactoriesPerTerritory" value="1"/> 
- added

LHTR heavy bombers is not editable
- changed to editable

the helicopter unit looks very pixelated
- i've changed it as far as i could - nice images are really hard - and i've also changed the jet-power images of the helicopter to distinguish them from the regular ones

*** if anyone can help me with a real nice image of a combat helicopter, please! ***

the map looks great
- thanks!!!

perhaps you can add some relief tiles
- I agree, but artwork is not my strongpoint. I've seen some darn beatifulm maps out there. I have difficulty with understanding these graphic tools: a lot of options but I've got no idea how to get what I want. Just like with the helicopters. I do understand the basics of hue/luminance, of transparency and anti-aliasing, but I just can't get it right. Yet.

bomber on carrier / carrier lower defence
- i'll take these into consideration and experiment some with it - see what is does to balancing

also a bit changed, the color scheme:



Can you add version 1.1.1 to the EB list? That would be awesome!
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: World War 2010 - the US vs China - version 1.1

Veqryn
Administrator
original:

here is a fighter heli i fixed up for you
you can change the hue of it to match the other nations (and saturation, brightness, and contrast)






here is the radar
you can create a layer above your other aaguns_r
and then paste this
then combine layers, and save
(i noticed your radar was different colors for each nation, figured you didn't think of this)



oh, and if you make "display sea names" editable=false, then all your options will fit on one page (looks nicer)
Please contribute to the TripleA 2013 donation drive:
http://tripleadev.1671093.n2.nabble.com/2013-TripleA-Donation-Drive-tp7583455.html
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: World War 2010 - the US vs China - version 1.1

Bas71
Thanks man, it's really great you're doing this for me. I will replace the current images with your helicopter-version. And I'll fix the radar images - missed that one indeed.

I am also experimenting with tiles. Not the easiest task to figure it all out, but I'm getting somewhere:



Do you want me to update everything before adding the map to the EB list?
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: World War 2010 - the US vs China - version 1.1

Veqryn
Administrator
This post was updated on .
sure, just do what you can and i'll wait til you replace at least the heli and aagun_r, before i upload
i can always apply a texture for you on whatever relieftiles you make
(let me know if you would like that, and what kind of texture you want)

oh... and 1 other thing, if you are going to be making a lot of future changes to the map, you can host it at a stable link (in other words, you can make changes, upload it, and the link does not ever change).  and i can link the eb list directly to your link.
this is probably the best way, since you can update often.
if you just keep the link http://www.lemairefilm.com/triplea/WorldWar2010.zip
and keep the game zip the same name "WorldWar2010.zip"
and keep the game name the same "World War 2010"
and upload it to that same link every time,
then i do not have to touch the eb list every time you upload it
Please contribute to the TripleA 2013 donation drive:
http://tripleadev.1671093.n2.nabble.com/2013-TripleA-Donation-Drive-tp7583455.html
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: World War 2010 - the US vs China - version 1.1

crystalct
In reply to this post by Bas71
Have you considered that the battleship is obsolete units in the modern era?
---------
Droid Rulez
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: World War 2010 - the US vs China - version 1.1

Bas71
From Wikipedia:

"[...] battleships were used to attain command of the sea and represented the apex of a nation's naval power from the nineteenth century up until World War II"

"The growing range of naval engagements led to the aircraft carrier replacing the battleship as the leading capital ship [...]"

"The last battleships were removed from the U.S. Naval Vessel Register in March 2006."

Crystalct, you have a serious point here. In the next release, I will remove the battleship as a unit. I'm going to experiment with the carrier as the new leading vessel. I'm thinking of making it two-hit and then increase the cost from 14 to 18 PUs.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: World War 2010 - the US vs China - version 1.1

wirkey
Hey Bas,

what about increasing attack for subs to 3 or even 4?
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: World War 2010 - the US vs China - version 1.1

Bas71
Hi Wirkey, thanks for the suggestion. First of, there is of course a sub with attack 3, the super-sub (technology).

Increasing the attack (by default) needs additional balancing. At least the cost of sub has to go up. Then we would lose the cheapest sea-unit.

I´ve been experimenting, and these are my findings:
- at attack 3 (and supersub attack 4) the sub should cost at least 8 PUs
- it´s attractive to buy only subs, making other units less interesting
- with an increased cost for the cheapest unit, nations with less PUs have a relative higher disadvantage

so, i have a bit of a hard time to find a new, and totally balanced solution for stronger subs  
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: World War 2010 - the US vs China - version 1.1

Bas71
In reply to this post by Veqryn
Hi Vegryn, I've uploaded version 1.2.0. I'll keep the download-adress stable at:

http://www.lemairefilm.com/triplea/WorldWar2010.zip

(and http://www.lemairefilm.com/triplea/maps.xml for in-game downloads)

Changes in 1.2.0:

  • Frontier between Sea Zones 5 and 6 (Baltic Sea) adjusted (yes, this was needed, the former borderline did not entirely add up).
  • Two units re-stationed from Germany to Greece (since the CIS fleet can no longer reach Germany directly in first round due to the change in the Sea Zones).
  • Carriers replace the battleship as leading capital ship (battleships are obsolete since 2006, as accurately pointed out by Crystalct), making the carriers two-hit and cost 18 in stead of 14. One US battleship re-stationed for balancing purposes.
  • Relief tiles added for a better looking map.
  • Updated images: the hit factory and the hit carrier (this is a new image).
  • And last but not least, more updates images: helicopters (thanks Vegryn), AA radars (yes, fixed them).
ENJOY! :)
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: World War 2010 - the US vs China - version 1.2

Veqryn
Administrator
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Bas71
uploaded to depot

thank you for making the changes necessary to comply with 1.2.x.x standard :)

comments:

neutrals folder needs to contain every single unit in the game possible
(not technically true, but good practice that prevents future issues especially if someone mods your map.  i also like all unit folders to have ALL possible units, even if they aren't used, again because it is good practice and because of possible errors if your map gets modded)

i like the new reliefs, and glad you like the new heli i made

i think carriers should be 1/1/2/17, instead of 1/2/2/18 (lower price by 1, also lower shipyards price by 1 aswell)

i would also consider making ships not repair at end of turn (and lowering the price by 1-2 more)
this would be a gameplay decision of course,
the consequences are:
naval races stop being all or nothing
(when ships repair for free, whoever loses the naval race has no chance to EVER start building naval again, because after the winner wins, they basically get free repair for like 50 pu of damage)

i made this change in napoleonic empires and loved it,

again, totally up to you

you do not have to listen to any of the crazy stuff i come up with

thx,
veqryn


edit:

eb list is
put this in the downloads map dialog box in triplea:
http://sites.google.com/site/tripleaerniebommel/home/mods/TripleA_Quality_Mods_EB.xml
Please contribute to the TripleA 2013 donation drive:
http://tripleadev.1671093.n2.nabble.com/2013-TripleA-Donation-Drive-tp7583455.html
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: World War 2010 - the US vs China - version 1.2

Bas71
Thank you, just to be sure, this is the eb-list right?
http://sites.google.com/site/tripleaerniebommel/home/mods/maps-for-triplea-1-1-x-0

There are some more updates I'm thinking about, so I have a wish-list. I've added your recommendations, thanks. Before a next release, I want to have more user feedback, and then make the necessary changes.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: World War 2010 - the US vs China - version 1.2

Veqryn
Administrator
you should not have deleted the "battleship.png" and "battleship_hit.png" from the units folder for each nation

it destroys backwards-compatibility

(you can remove it from the xml, but don't remove it from the graphics)

(i joined a game of this, and had an error, could not play, because there was no battleship graphic)

please re-add it
Please contribute to the TripleA 2013 donation drive:
http://tripleadev.1671093.n2.nabble.com/2013-TripleA-Donation-Drive-tp7583455.html
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: World War 2010 - the US vs China - version 1.2

Bas71
DONE!

no problem, i have re-added them (and completed all available units for the neutrals while I was at it, incl. the helicopters en a hit carrier)
no new map version though, still 1.2.0

what i don't understand though, is the backwards compatibility - in my experience everyone should have the same map version in oder to be able to play

especially since there is a small change in the actual map itself (sea borders Baltic Sea) - I would expect major errors there (making a move in the one map that is impossible in the other)

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: World War 2010 - the US vs China - version 1.2

Veqryn
Administrator
all players load the xml that the host is running

so technically, there is never an issue so long as the map name is the same and there are art files for everything possible
Please contribute to the TripleA 2013 donation drive:
http://tripleadev.1671093.n2.nabble.com/2013-TripleA-Donation-Drive-tp7583455.html
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: World War 2010 - the US vs China - version 1.2

OnanTheBrBr
Just my 2 Cents about auto-repair or no auto-repair:

I think this question depends strongly on the map.

-If amphibious attacks are a strong aspect of the map - as they are in napoleonic empires - I think having no auto repair is just the right decision. In Napoleonic empires, short naval ways and a lot of expensive territories behind the frontline reachable by amphibious attack, naval dominance probably is too strong a game winning factor if it can be reached once and for all times. This is amplified by the lack of air, which makes amphibious attacks using bombardment a very effective way of trading territory, with virtually no good counter existent.

-If naval dominance is less decisive a factor, rather being one among a series of equally important factors, I believe, auto-repair is even desirable. For example on NWO, naval routes are long and there are a lot of inland territories, so naval dominance affects only a smaller part of the map at a given time. The existence of airforce poses a possible counter, since the airforce can build up undisturbed. Trading coastal regions is pretty affordable, using planes and cheap inf, so the influence of bombardment is less. Both axis as well as allies can lose the naval race and still win with a land based strategy - or vice versa. So winning a naval race, gaining some TUV win and a somewhat stable positioning is something that gives the map flavor in this case, I believe. It is part of the map to aim for a strategic goal and score some advantage if reaching it - usually at the price of losing another theater/aspect.

Make sure that this definitely is by NOT MEANS intended to compare Napoleonic empires to NWO - I think Napoleonic empires is great a map and I look forward to play it. I just refer to NWO because I know it better than other maps and it fitted best here to illustrate the difference in game mechanics style I wanted to point out.

Specifically, I think Veqryn is right with its hint concerning this map here (World war 2010).

EB
For Downloads, Help, Maps and Links, visit Bommel's TripleA Supply Depot
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: World War 2010 - the US vs China - version 1.2

Bas71
I like the two-hit/auto-repair combo, also in World War 2010. It gives some parties the chance to build up a serious fleet without it being wiped out in the next round by enemy airpower.

Take for instance PSC (Africa). In the beginning, it hardly has a fleet. With auto-repair for the carrier, PSC can build a fleet in the Mediterranean Sea (1 carrier + 3 helicopters in the first round, support ships and transports in the following). Same goes for USAN (South America) and CIS (Russia).

On the other hand, NATO America could invest in a fleet consisting of only carriers and make no other investments. Since this party is pretty safe for the first rounds, and it has 2 carriers to begin with, it can create a seaforce that is pratically invincible. I guess this is also pretty much Vegryn's issue.

Hmmm... in the next release, i'll make both two-hit and auto-repair selectable in the Game Options.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: World War 2010 - the US vs China - version 1.2

RogerCooper
In Red Dragon Rising (Decision Games), US aircraft carriers are the only 2-hit units in the game. No other country has real aircraft carriers other than the US and developing a fleet carrier capability would be expensive.

In the modern world, the real threat to Carriers is from subs.
12