Prepare yourself soldier.
For you are about to enter a world at war.
All around you your enemies are gathering.
Your enemies shall send soldiers.
And tanks at you.
But little do they know;
this war is unlike any the world has ever seen.
It will be nothing short of a true World War.
No place on Earth will be uninvolved in this war.
No place on Earth will be untouched by this war.
No place on Earth will be unravaged by this war.
This World War.
This Ultimate War.
Prepare yourself soldier.
For this is ULTIMATE WORLD!
The Number of nations has increased drastically from the original Ultimate World. The Axis Powers are now up to seven nations including: Germany, Japan, Italy, Finland, Romania, Thailand and Iraq. The number of Allied Powers has also gone up to fourteen which now include: Eastern U.S., Western U.S., Russia, France, United Kingdom, Canada, China, the Low Countries, Australia, Denmark, India, Egypt, Poland and the Balkan States. Their turn order and their capitals are listed as follows:
Germany - Berlin
Poland - Western Poland
Canada - Ontario
Finland - Lensi-Suomen
Denmark - Denmark
Low-Countries - Low Countries
Romania - Romania France - Paris
China - Yunnan
Iraq - Iraq
Balkan-States - Crete
India - Bombay
Italy - Southern Italy
Russia - Moscow
United Kingdom - London
Japan - Tokyo
Australia - Victoria
Egypt - Cairo
Thailand - Bangkok
Western U.S. - South-West United States
Eastern U.S. - North-East United States
Standard TripleA '4th edition' + 'LHTR' bomber rules apply.
After a long time of experimenting with different ideas for unit mechanics and statistics, I decided to return to my ULTIMATE WORLD map and what I have created, I believe to play out historically accurate, yet still is still a balanced game. I recently downloaded and played the Ultimate Pants mod and I enjoyed the number of Nations there were and decided to expand on that. What I came up with, I shall Call Ultimate World - Expanded, the unit stats are very different then the original Ultimate world but I believe it adds greatly to the gameplay creating a historically accurate and balanced game.
I focused on a veriety of ways to make this map play out historically accurate. One objective I was trying to achieve was to make the battle of the atlantic much more about submarines. To do this I tried a veriety of ways; I tried making subs 2 hits so that it makes them harder to destroy, I tried making them move faster so that their movements would be less predictable, I tried changing the destroyer: by removing its destroyer ability (of which I added to the S_destroyer in the original Ultimate World), I tried making the destroyer move slow and change it so that it was mainly a defensive unit: a sort of Jack of all trades if you will, I finally came to what is in this game using most of these ideas.
Another way I tried was to make smaller nations be able to defend agienst larger nations. What I came up with here was include a few new units, such as the conscript which is specifically designed for defense as well as the bunker which enhances ones defencive capabilities, I also changed artillery to be more defensive. For the sea, I included the local-t (stands for local transportation), which allows you to tranfer men from 1 side of a seazone to the other but also is 2-hit, allowing you to use it more as a safezone for your fleet as well. All these things make defending much cheaper then attacking, though you wont be able to transfer these defensive capabilities to offensive capabilities very well as these defencive units dont move fast and have a low or even no attack.
The third way, was to make planes a more viable options for attacking things, so that things like the Battle of Britian and Pearl Harbour can play out without other forces. I did this by making fighters 2-hit units, allowing them to attack targets without fear of being unlucky and shot down.
The last way was to divide up the nations even more and add in nations that would be conquered easily so that their production would go to who needs it (and France can actually survive for quite a while if your not careful Germany). I did this so that certian areas will be fought over in certian ways rather then be at the end of a supply line.
Well I hope you enjoy my revision of Ultimate world and remember Big World may be big but Ultimate world is
again u made a very nice map, compliments for that. But i have a sugestion/complaint :P
the seaunits u made are not very good in my eyes, four 2hit ships is a real pain in the ass to calculate seabattles, with the 2 hit planes it will soon become a calculating nightmare when fleets become bigger and bigger.
also to sink 1 submarine it takes 6 planes :O thats a little much dont u agree?
i reccoment to use units similar to the old 1.73 ultimateworld for the reason that they are very known to people (they look alot like revised unit only small changes), when the map becomes popular wich i beleve it will you cn always change some of the units as you please. map is complicated enough for new people and the units arent helping atm (im thinking hoi, great game but to much crap :P)
you know im a big fan of UW maps and hope you will consider what im saying here.
hmm I understand your concerns Ice but If I was to return most of those ships to 1 hit units then planes will just be able to sloughter them. and though it will cause calculating battles to be more difficult, I think it makes the naval theater much more interesting then just building enouph stuff till your strong enough to beat his fleet. Instead you have to actually think about where you move and where your enemy can move. As well I think it encourages the idea of more raids to keep the enemy fleet within a managable level
and with the submarines... hmm... no I think thats good, again I wanted to make submarines a more viable option, and planes as they were could sloughter the navy of any nation and so their capability agienst naval units had to be reduced. plus think of it, submarines werent exactly easy to find, think of how many planes were sent out before one reported back they found a submarine.
You maybe right about the new unit list being a bit too complicated, I'll see what I can do to make the unit list simpler
hmm, you maybe right on the costs of some units.
the submarine is tough but ya, i might have made it too tough for its cost.
I reviewed the air and naval unit costs/stats and heres what i came up with for changes.
fighter - same unit but costs 2 more
bomber - same unit but costs 3 more
I looked over the naval units and this is what i came up with for units
local-t - gets 1 defence but costs 2 more
transport - gets 1 defence(total 2) but costs 2 more
submarine - costs 2 more
destroyer - gets 1 defence(total 4) but costs 2 more
cruiser - gets 1 defence(total 5) but costs 4 more
Could be good.. but 2-hit fighters are very awesome as hitpoint shield on land-attacks.... lets see the following scenario:
Defense: 4 infantry
Attack: 1 infantry, 3 fighters, 1 bomber
DEF: 2 inf lost
ATT: 2 damaged FT (rounded up
DEF: 2 inf lost
ATT: 1 damaged FT
Attacker wins!! no losses. Airforce can be used on any front-area - This means that noone dares to stack anything above 1 unit on the front because the attacker can usually whipe any 3-5 stack without any losses - 2 hit fighters will slow down blitz attacks because a 3 armor + 1 inf stack is threathened by any 1 inf stack (with airforce support)
awesome unit, on the cheap side... but alas... everyone will buy FT @ 12 :)
Would scratch carrier / transport ability (and artillery) - then cost 28-29 I think.
Though noone would buy this (at 14IPC / hit with 1 movement) -- maybe keep it @ 30 but then have 6/6/2
what do you think?
I did consider having 2 carriers in it 1 heavy carrier(carry 3 fighters and is 2 hit) and 1 light carrier(carry 1 fighter and is 1 hit) but i figured that might be getting into too many units
If the units are balanced and have a unique role it is ok to have many :)
You have some room (like the light cruiser) for 9-15 cost 1 hit ships...
Also I think that 2hit FT will cause for MORE fleet attacks instead of less.... if I have a FT group I would keep hitting every fleet in range and pulling back as soon as all FT are damaged... try again next round.
while the ipc/hit ratio for the sub may be high, you also have to look at its combat values. like you are paying 10(or 12) for 1 defence or 1 attack in any specific battle. where other units like the destroyer or the cruiser, its much higher. for the destroyer its 12 for 4 defence(even if you devide the defence by 2 since its only 1 hit its still higher then the subs attack or defence). its ipc/defence ratio is 3 which is probably the highest in terms of sea units. for the cruiser its 22 for 5 defence or 3 attack but it also is 2 hit. its ipc/defence ratio is 4.4 where the submarine is 12. so I don't think just looking at the # of hits the unit has is the best way to determine its price. like if you put up 1 submarine agienst 1 destroyer, in most cases, the submarine will have to retreat. the submarine as it is now, I think will mainly be used to hit small far away targets because of its movement, where the surface ships will mainly be used for combat.
we really gatta try to develop an equation that can be applied to any units stats to determine its price
as for fighters on land. again the number of hits a unit has isnt the only way to look at the effectiveness of the unit. like the fighter does have the extra hit but its ipc/attack ratio is huge at 6 while armours ipc/attack ratio is 1.666, which makes that unit very effective in any 1 battle for its cost. Another thing is, land battles are hardly what they used to be, with conscripts(whos ipc/defence ratio is 1 which is probably the best in the game) and bunkers which is a cheap 2 hit defence unit. the fighters make it so when your attacking, its much more possible to fight large armies that russia will no doubt create agienst germany and finland.
about the artillery thing, I heard a while back that if the attack of the artillery supportable unit was 0 then the artillery doesnt effect it. I was just trying it out, and it doesnt look like the artillery helps the conscripts either with their attack(but they also have the side effect of taking artillery support away from standard infantry which i'm not sure if i like or not)
in terms of sea units, there are certian units in which i want to have the same price as others. like i want the submarine and the destroyer to be at the same price, the transport and the local-t, i would like at the same price but they dont have to be, I also kind of like the idea of the cruiser and the carrier being at the same price.
the cruisers role is really between the destroyer and the battleship but it can move faster
also i dont want too many types of units for people to get overwhelmed by
Hits means: "My stack can take so much damage without it costing me any IPC"
Same as the BB role... the 2hit BB doesn't mean it takes 2 hits and dies, it means your fleet can take 1 hit for free.
3 subs with a fleet means the fleet can take 3 hits for free... so it is not so much about total fleet vs total fleet till annihilation, but more about "What fleet can I take out without taking any loss" or in the case of FT: "what landstack can I take out without taking any loss."
having 10 fighters at each side of the front means that either side can take out a 10 inf stack without taking any loss (making sure neither side dares to stack 10inf against a single infantry on the other side).
And even if they stack 20 inf against you, you could still kill a whole bunch and withdraw your airplanes.
Rusia: 24 infantry stacked against Germany 1 infantry.
Germany attacks with 1 infantry, 3 bombers, 10 FT
Round 1: GE: 4FT damaged RU: 4 INF lost
Round 2: GE: 3FT damaged RU: 4 INF lost
Round 3: GE: 2FT damaged RU: 4 INF lost
Round 4: GE: 1FT damaged & 1 INF lost RU: 4 INF lost
GE withdraws FT and Bombers
Final: GE: 1 INF vs RU: 16 INF
FT pull back 1 square and isn't threathed to be killed by RU... 2hit airsupport might not be a good idea :)
Having a small fleet of 2 subs, 1 carrier, 2ft and 1 cruiser - means you can take out fleets that give you 6 hits .. for ... free.
---- anyhow... IPC / Hit ratio is important for fleets and landunits and free hits that autorepair is very important
(not so important for airforce that withdraws anyways after winning extra hits for Airunits might be priceless!!!)...
Of course I am assuming you have "auto-repair" turned on... it really affects the balance.
:) I'm pretty sure "Hits" means how much a unit can take before it dies not how much damage can be done to it without costing you any ipc. If it was by that definition then it would be "1-hit" not "2-hit" :)
like if we look at subs vs destroyers(the updated ones)
1 sub vs 1 destroyer will rarely kill the destroyer before it has to retreat
2 subs vs 2 destroyers will result in the destroyer definately getting 1 hit and then the destroyers and the subs each have an equal opportunity to get another hit. since the odds of getting a hit for each of them is 1/3 we'll assume they get their extra hit on the third round of combat. however by the second round the destroyers have already taken away the 2 extra hits of the subs. In which case the destroyers will kill the subs while the subs only kill 1 of the destroyers.
3 subs vs 3 destroyers will result in the destroyer getting 2 hits on round 1, and the subs maybe getting a hit on round one. If they do, then they can kill 1-2 destroyers before they have to retreat, if they dont, they have to retreat otherwise they'll loose a sub.
4 subs vs 4 destroyers will result in the subs likely getting 1 hit and the destroyers likely getting 3. If they both get hits then the subs have to retreat otherwise the next round they'll loose a sub.
5 subs vs 5 destroyers will result in the destroyers getting 3, maybe 4 hits and the subs most likely getting 1. In the next round(assuming the destroyer missed) the destroyers are likely to get 3 again while the subs only get 1.
The point I'm trying to make here, is that, yes the subs are able to inflict casualties when they choose the battle, but when your defending, you dont have that luxury, and you saw how fast the number of sub hits went down in these examples. what happens if the enemy fleet has just 1 2 hit unit in this case? the subs first round of attack would be nullified while they endure several hits. they are not as cost-effective cannon fodder as you think, because they dont have the attack/defence values to back it up, instead they are best used for their mobility which can be used to get around the larger fleets fast and hit the stragglers.
for the fighters vs infantry example. If the fighter costs 12, and is attacking then the defender has either 6 conscripts(12 defence which is enough to kill a fighter in 1 shot) or 4 infantry(8 defence which is just as likely to kill that fighter as that fighter is as likely to get 1 hit) if the infantry are actually attacking the fighter(not including an attack by the conscripts because we know how that'll turn out) thats 4 attack on 3 defence, in which case the infantry are likely to kill that fighter for the cost of 1 or 2 infantry which is a bonus for the atacker of a TUV difference of + 6-9. Now I know this example is unlikely to happen but if you look at the ipc/defence or the ipc/attack ratio's of the units, these 2 hit units are at quite a disadvantage compared to their 1 hit counterparts.
If I look at the example you gave me of an attacking force of 10 fighters, 3 bombers and an infantry vs an equal amount of ipc value in infantry(not conscripts), then the attacking force is facing 59 infantry. Now I know i shouldnt have to prove an example here but i will anyways. 59 infantry are likely to hit 19-20 targets(likely 20) and with a maximum number of hits in the attacking force of 24, its a sloughter. If it was perhaps the other way around with the 59 infantry attacking, thats most likely 10 hits on the first round where the defenders get 6 maybe 7... again this battle is a sloughter.
Now I know what your thinking... why even buy fighters or subs? and I'll tell you why. Its because although fighters and submarines in combat roles are not nearly as effective as thier 1-hit counterparts, these units can apply their limited attack/defence values over a wide range of territories and as well that extra hit basically buys you an extra fodder unit each time. On land that extra hit buys you an extra infantry or conscript that can be used in battle in the future, at sea, it buys you an extra transport, or destroyer or submarine, which will be effective in the future. The trick is keeping these units alive.
Also think the subs are a problem as they are. If u want to keep subs more a threat, you could split up your approach:
Form Wolfpacks composed of cheap standard subs and give each pack one sub of a more expensive kind, having two hits. This also makes subs - at least in packs - pretty hard to kill. They are almost impervious to air that way, since - as stated before, 6 planes are needed to score ONE hit, before they dive. Disadvantage is maybe the introduction of an extra unit, but it might really be helpfull here.
About the 2-hit fighters, I really believe they are game-killers. Simple reason: if parked in a central front territory in some amount, they can completely cut if the enemy stack from supply. 4 ftrs kill 4 inf almost always unpunished - and if anything would go wrong (inf hitting on a 2 in the first round), they can just retreat. Couple that with the cheap and amazingly powerfull long range bombers (20 IPC with these stats on NWO, and easily worth that money), and you can kill every medium inf stack unprotected by AA within reach of a few ftrs and the bombers. This probably kills any pleasant late game. I think its also the reason why we almost never see 2-hit flyers in any other Mods.
But if u want to keep the idea, maybe split the problem again, and introduce an expensive (!) 2 hit flyer, being available on top of vanilla fighters.
Just my 2 Cents. I only bother because the map looks pretty cool. Good job there!