Total World War: December 1941 Version 2.5

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Re: Total World War: December 1941 Version 2.5

hepster
That is governed by the Engine.  Not T.W.W.
“A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition”― Rudyard Kipling
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Re: Total World War: December 1941 Version 2.5

Rolf Larsson
2.5.3 will be a little delayed, but I used the time to do the techoverview for the objective panel. Will also include the only more or less objective in TWW, the Dutch East Indies free material stuff.
I think we do some nice sounds and a nice cursor, too. If not to come with 2.5.3 it will be there in 2.5.4, when the stable is out and it is usable.

We now have custom dice!
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Re: Total World War: December 1941 Version 2.5

Dima
nice stuff and usefull
Why stay and die, when you can retreat and fight a other day when the odds are favorable to you?
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Re: Total World War: December 1941 Version 2.5

wirkey
In reply to this post by hepster
hepster wrote
That is governed by the Engine.  Not T.W.W.

Are you sure about that? In Global it works for all territories adjacent to a seazone from which an amphib assault is started.
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Re: Total World War: December 1941 Version 2.5

sonrix
In reply to this post by L & H Studios
Game between Curro (Axis) and sonrix (Allies) - 2.5.2

In turn 14 Axis surrendered after a successfull bombing campaign against Germany. Germany managed to take first Leningrad, then Moscov, landed several times in England but in the end had very few ground troups left and allmost no production facilities left.

Russia was retaking lost ground after a building a devensive line between Urals and Stalingrad, supported by Allied aircraft after the fall of Moscow.

Japan managed to expand unit Calcutta but never managed to gain ground against China. In the end China had managed to get enough airforce to make Japanese attacks on the mountain areas impossible. Due to British bombardment of newly baracks in Saigon and Calcutta and an US landing on the chinese shore destroying 3 factories, Japan also lacked the capacities to build enough ground troops to substain expansion.

Italy managed to destroy the british fleet defending Cairo and destroyed the production in Cairo but could not hold this ground. So the Italian offensive could not develop.

England was hard pressured by constant German landing, which with coastal bombardment and a huge German airforce allways were economic desaters. But Germany due to the landings and few barracks lost most of its defending forces in western Europe. England retreated to London build up a huge airforce and later paradropped to the allmost defenceless coastal areas in France.

Sweden joined Germany in turn 2. Spain came to axis a few turns later. Shortly after the fall of Moscow and Turkey and Brasil joined Allies.

The German naval strategy did not payout. As it allowed Russia to keep quite a large army in the Yakut area binding a lot of Japanese ground forces on defensive purposes and making Japan unable to take China. Germany underestimated the strategic bombing campaign and build up defences when the damage was done. Without enough ground forces - and the allies beeing allowed to enter Russia - Germany was breaking down in the east and hard pressed by paratroopers and airforce in the West.

US sacrificied its first fleet in order to destroy Japanese production facilities. Though it was an economic loss, Japan lost its momentum in expansion and could not rebuild its production facilities in time.
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Re: Total World War: December 1941 Version 2.5

hendriks1
Funny how most players play TOTALLY different. As a german player, I would never even try to land in the UK as I know without 100% support of the german and conquered territories this would never pay off.

My ultimate goal would be to destroy Russia or at least cripple it and then try different options to at least maintain the european ground and in the meantime have italy/japan expend in such a way that allied victory becomes impossible.
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Re: Total World War: December 1941 Version 2.5

sonrix
We are just playing a second game, where Germany tried the same Naval Strategy, which lead to the same dynamics in Asia, with China surviving the Japanese attack.

Both sides improved their playing style.

This time it took much longer for Germany to take out the British navy and start landings on the english coast. It still is costy for the British.

USA did not repeat the bombing strategy but did a battleship run against Japan, which forced Japan heavily into naval buildup.

It is not quite clear yet, who will break down first - Russia or Japan.

But I am still not convinced that a German naval strategy may have success. But this time it looks a much better in Russia for the German troops as they try to avoid giving Allies entrance to Russian terretory as long as possible.
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Re: Total World War: December 1941 Version 2.5

Storm
After some serious playtesting and just reading that you want to bring out the new Update soon I wanted to post a fast note. Not much time for more now, later one with the complete list of name corrections I post more ideas that came by playing.

But now the one mistake (if it is one and not intentional) we noticed in our game that can maybe still be corrected in the update.

Gibraltar and Tangier can attack each other with normal ground troops without any naval support. Is this intentional or a simple mistake with the land-to-land connection? I at least thought one cannot get over the big water without some transporters and was quite astonished when suddenly a big enemy force came to attack me ;)
Try and you can fail. Never try and you already failed.
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Re: Total World War: December 1941 Version 2.5

hepster
That is a mistake.  Simply from our race to release for U.S. Thanksgiving.  It will be removed.
“A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition”― Rudyard Kipling
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Re: Total World War: December 1941 Version 2.5

orca
I played several games without problems.  But now when I try to start a game I get an error message stating "java heap space" and


triplea.engine.version.bin:1.6.1.2
java.lang.reflect.InvocationTargetException
        at java.awt.EventQueue.invokeAndWait(EventQueue.java:1111)
        at javax.swing.SwingUtilities.invokeAndWait(SwingUtilities.java:1326)
        at games.strategy.triplea.TripleA.startGame(TripleA.java:133)
        at games.strategy.engine.framework.startup.launcher.LocalLauncher.launchInNewThread(LocalLauncher.java:69)
        at games.strategy.engine.framework.startup.launcher.AbstractLauncher$1.run(AbstractLauncher.java:46)
        at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:680)
Caused by: java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: Java heap space
        at java.awt.image.DataBufferByte.<init>(DataBufferByte.java:59)
        at java.awt.image.ComponentSampleModel.createDataBuffer(ComponentSampleModel.java:397)
        at java.awt.image.Raster.createWritableRaster(Raster.java:938)
        at javax.imageio.ImageTypeSpecifier.createBufferedImage(ImageTypeSpecifier.java:1056)
        at javax.imageio.ImageReader.getDestination(ImageReader.java:2879)
        at com.sun.imageio.plugins.png.PNGImageReader.readImage(PNGImageReader.java:1263)
        at com.sun.imageio.plugins.png.PNGImageReader.read(PNGImageReader.java:1560)
        at javax.imageio.ImageIO.read(ImageIO.java:1422)
        at javax.imageio.ImageIO.read(ImageIO.java:1374)
        at games.strategy.triplea.ui.MapData.loadImage(MapData.java:672)
        at games.strategy.triplea.ui.MapData.loadDecorations(MapData.java:196)
        at games.strategy.triplea.ui.MapData.<init>(MapData.java:157)
        at games.strategy.triplea.ui.UIContext.internalSetMapDir(UIContext.java:203)
        at games.strategy.triplea.ui.UIContext.setDefaultMapDir(UIContext.java:175)
        at games.strategy.triplea.ui.TripleAFrame.<init>(TripleAFrame.java:211)
        at games.strategy.triplea.TripleA$1.run(TripleA.java:140)
        at java.awt.event.InvocationEvent.dispatch(InvocationEvent.java:199)
        at java.awt.EventQueue.dispatchEventImpl(EventQueue.java:702)
        at java.awt.EventQueue.access$400(EventQueue.java:82)
        at java.awt.EventQueue$2.run(EventQueue.java:663)
        at java.awt.EventQueue$2.run(EventQueue.java:661)
        at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method)
        at java.security.AccessControlContext$1.doIntersectionPrivilege(AccessControlContext.java:87)
        at java.awt.EventQueue.dispatchEvent(EventQueue.java:672)
        at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpOneEventForFilters(EventDispatchThread.java:296)
        at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEventsForFilter(EventDispatchThread.java:211)
        at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEventsForHierarchy(EventDispatchThread.java:201)
        at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEvents(EventDispatchThread.java:196)
        at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEvents(EventDispatchThread.java:188)
        at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.run(EventDispatchThread.java:122)
java.lang.reflect.InvocationTargetException
        at java.awt.EventQueue.invokeAndWait(EventQueue.java:1111)
        at javax.swing.SwingUtilities.invokeAndWait(SwingUtilities.java:1326)
        at games.strategy.triplea.TripleA.startGame(TripleA.java:133)
        at games.strategy.engine.framework.startup.launcher.LocalLauncher.launchInNewThread(LocalLauncher.java:69)
        at games.strategy.engine.framework.startup.launcher.AbstractLauncher$1.run(AbstractLauncher.java:46)
        at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:680)
Caused by: java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: Java heap space
        at java.awt.image.DataBufferByte.<init>(DataBufferByte.java:59)
        at java.awt.image.ComponentSampleModel.createDataBuffer(ComponentSampleModel.java:397)
        at java.awt.image.Raster.createWritableRaster(Raster.java:938)
        at javax.imageio.ImageTypeSpecifier.createBufferedImage(ImageTypeSpecifier.java:1056)
        at javax.imageio.ImageReader.getDestination(ImageReader.java:2879)
        at com.sun.imageio.plugins.png.PNGImageReader.readImage(PNGImageReader.java:1263)
        at com.sun.imageio.plugins.png.PNGImageReader.read(PNGImageReader.java:1560)
        at javax.imageio.ImageIO.read(ImageIO.java:1422)
        at javax.imageio.ImageIO.read(ImageIO.java:1374)
        at games.strategy.triplea.ui.MapData.loadImage(MapData.java:672)
        at games.strategy.triplea.ui.MapData.loadDecorations(MapData.java:196)
        at games.strategy.triplea.ui.MapData.<init>(MapData.java:157)
        at games.strategy.triplea.ui.UIContext.internalSetMapDir(UIContext.java:203)
        at games.strategy.triplea.ui.UIContext.setDefaultMapDir(UIContext.java:175)
        at games.strategy.triplea.ui.TripleAFrame.<init>(TripleAFrame.java:211)
        at games.strategy.triplea.TripleA$1.run(TripleA.java:140)
        at java.awt.event.InvocationEvent.dispatch(InvocationEvent.java:199)
        at java.awt.EventQueue.dispatchEventImpl(EventQueue.java:702)
        at java.awt.EventQueue.access$400(EventQueue.java:82)
        at java.awt.EventQueue$2.run(EventQueue.java:663)
        at java.awt.EventQueue$2.run(EventQueue.java:661)
        at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method)
        at java.security.AccessControlContext$1.doIntersectionPrivilege(AccessControlContext.java:87)
        at java.awt.EventQueue.dispatchEvent(EventQueue.java:672)
        at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpOneEventForFilters(EventDispatchThread.java:296)
        at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEventsForFilter(EventDispatchThread.java:211)
        at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEventsForHierarchy(EventDispatchThread.java:201)
        at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEvents(EventDispatchThread.java:196)
        at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEvents(EventDispatchThread.java:188)
        at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.run(EventDispatchThread.java:122)
java.lang.reflect.InvocationTargetException
        at java.awt.EventQueue.invokeAndWait(EventQueue.java:1111)
        at javax.swing.SwingUtilities.invokeAndWait(SwingUtilities.java:1326)
        at games.strategy.triplea.TripleA.startGame(TripleA.java:133)
        at games.strategy.engine.framework.startup.launcher.LocalLauncher.launchInNewThread(LocalLauncher.java:69)
        at games.strategy.engine.framework.startup.launcher.AbstractLauncher$1.run(AbstractLauncher.java:46)
        at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:680)
Caused by: java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: Java heap space
        at java.awt.image.DataBufferByte.<init>(DataBufferByte.java:59)
        at java.awt.image.ComponentSampleModel.createDataBuffer(ComponentSampleModel.java:397)
        at java.awt.image.Raster.createWritableRaster(Raster.java:938)
        at javax.imageio.ImageTypeSpecifier.createBufferedImage(ImageTypeSpecifier.java:1056)
        at javax.imageio.ImageReader.getDestination(ImageReader.java:2879)
        at com.sun.imageio.plugins.png.PNGImageReader.readImage(PNGImageReader.java:1263)
        at com.sun.imageio.plugins.png.PNGImageReader.read(PNGImageReader.java:1560)
        at javax.imageio.ImageIO.read(ImageIO.java:1422)
        at javax.imageio.ImageIO.read(ImageIO.java:1374)
        at games.strategy.triplea.ui.MapData.loadImage(MapData.java:672)
        at games.strategy.triplea.ui.MapData.loadDecorations(MapData.java:196)
        at games.strategy.triplea.ui.MapData.<init>(MapData.java:157)
        at games.strategy.triplea.ui.UIContext.internalSetMapDir(UIContext.java:203)
        at games.strategy.triplea.ui.UIContext.setDefaultMapDir(UIContext.java:175)
        at games.strategy.triplea.ui.TripleAFrame.<init>(TripleAFrame.java:211)
        at games.strategy.triplea.TripleA$1.run(TripleA.java:140)
        at java.awt.event.InvocationEvent.dispatch(InvocationEvent.java:199)
        at java.awt.EventQueue.dispatchEventImpl(EventQueue.java:702)
        at java.awt.EventQueue.access$400(EventQueue.java:82)
        at java.awt.EventQueue$2.run(EventQueue.java:663)
        at java.awt.EventQueue$2.run(EventQueue.java:661)
        at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method)
        at java.security.AccessControlContext$1.doIntersectionPrivilege(AccessControlContext.java:87)
        at java.awt.EventQueue.dispatchEvent(EventQueue.java:672)
        at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpOneEventForFilters(EventDispatchThread.java:296)
        at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEventsForFilter(EventDispatchThread.java:211)
        at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEventsForHierarchy(EventDispatchThread.java:201)
        at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEvents(EventDispatchThread.java:196)
        at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEvents(EventDispatchThread.java:188)
        at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.run(EventDispatchThread.java:122)


What do I need to do to fix things?
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Re: Total World War: December 1941 Version 2.5

hepster
If you are playing and then restarting without closing tripleA or restarting your Java process then this can happen.

Any time this has happened to me I simply shut down Triple A , check the processes in my Task manager (looking to see if there is still a Java.EXE running and ending its process if there is) then restarting Tiple A.

T.W.W. can easily cause Java heap space problems as you play longer or restart games without re starting Triple A.  Following these steps should fix your issue.
“A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition”― Rudyard Kipling
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Re: Total World War: December 1941 Version 2.5

hepster
Hi guys, just a quick note.  We were just about ready to release today when we hit a critical bug with the new version.  So we needed to hold off until we get that hammered out.

Everything else is already done.  So Rolf is just looking over the revisions to the manual and dealing with the bug.

Shouldn't be to much longer unless thee was something more significant about the issue we ran into.

Cheers, Hepps
“A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition”― Rudyard Kipling
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Re: Total World War: December 1941 Version 2.5

Zim Xero
This post was updated on .
Last minute suggestion:  I recommend using a text notification for the opening message before selection of options, one of which can cancel graphics message downloads.  I know an opening splash screen is really nice but... lots of new players will think the game has crashed - Don't want their first impression to be cussing while slowly reaching for CNTL+ALT+DEL.  Maybe, at least put in an opening message that the game is "loading".   The 'game loading' message could even be a giant unit placed on a visible opening territory... which dissapears after option selection has been made.

example:
'thats the way it is' makes it neither desireable nor inevitable
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Re: Total World War: December 1941 Version 2.5

Dima
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by hendriks1
hendriks , tanks ar allredy not shining on the battelfield and a increse to 7pu would make unwanded by the players. I dont know against ho did you play , but a mass tank building is a waste of pu in the long term if you play a experienced player.
Most of the important battles take place in urban terr, wher the tanks get -2 att, so they ar left with a total of 4att, if you compare it with the Inf that has 3att in the same urban terr, you would realize that tanks dont represent a good choice, 1 extra attack for 3 pu? and the chance to get first shoted in the battle cuz of the AT.
Plus if you comapare tanks to Inf you would realize that tanks got the 1 of the most awfull terr bonuses in the game that gives them a avrage -2 attack and -2 defence in all the terrains, so you get a tank unit that has in most of the battle a avrage 4 att 3 deff, compared to the Inf that has 2 att and 4 deff on avrage ( 3 base defence +1 from terrain bonus).
The usefullnes of this unit remains the 2 movement , and for that you pay a total of 6pu. I m not gone say anything about the blitz ability cuz in most of the casese you confront forrest/montain terrain that nulifies this ability.

In comparation with most of the maps tanks got 3/3/2+blitz price usualy 6pu ( 6 side dice) , transladed to a 12 sided dice map , that should be 6/6/2+ blitz, but the issue here is that we confront terrain modifiers that limit ther utility. In exchange the Inf unit in this map is very well transformd, from 1/2/1 price 3pu, to 2/3/1 price 3pu, but they get a +1 def in most of the terrain so that compensates the logical 2/4/1 stats.

My point is this: it dosent matter if the base stats of a unit is 7/7/2+blitz if it gets - 4 att -4 def in over 80% of the terrains in that map. Its more simpler and less confuseing to simply make it 3/3/2

PS: just look for example at attack negative bonus that AT gun's get in Mountain terr, -2 att, when ther base att is 1.
I m not saying that terrain bonuses ar a bad thing, contrary they ar the salt and peper of this map, but its hard to find a good balance betwen the units
And as fact of this terrain bonus issue, look on the new suggested bonuses that mech inf has in most of the terrains, its 0, and i m partialy glad, 3/3/2 is a partial translation of the mech inf from a 6 side dice map, wher it has 1/2/2 ,(logical would be 2/4/2) but 1 def transform in to 1 att, so its OK, the problem is that the cost is 5pu insted of 4pu, maybe the 1pu difference is justifide by the  1 way 2 space noncombat unit transport, time will tell
Why stay and die, when you can retreat and fight a other day when the odds are favorable to you?
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Re: Total World War: December 1941 Version 2.5

Rolf Larsson
Nice idea Zim, don´t think that it is necessary so. Someone who wants to play a few days with one game is probably patient enough to wait a few seconds.

@Dima: I don´t believe in the god(A&A) given 6sided dice stats anymore, changed to often and still is not good imo. You ignored supports which ensure mixed armies and raise your tanks by +3 or more maybe.

So I was able to change the settings to not have the error occur, now everything works fine as far as I can tell. We are going to have a look at the changed setup, which has a nice surprise, too.
Since 1.6.1.3 isn´t too far away, I think we just integrate everything for it, which means TWW 2.5.3 will have to played with the prerelease for the next ~2weeks. By doing so you also help Verqryn to track possible bugs and can enjoy nice sounds, additional functions and a better overview.

If our today tests turn out well we can maybe upload tomorrow or the next days.
We now have custom dice!
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Re: Total World War: December 1941 Version 2.5

orca
In reply to this post by hepster
got it to work.  thanks.

I tried to purchase a battleship for Russia and place it in sea zone 29 where there seems to be a hull and an adjacent dock but it wouldn't let me.  
 
Is this s a bug or am I missing something.
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Re: Total World War: December 1941 Version 2.5

Rolf Larsson
with 2.5 the placement rules changed, you need to have docks+factory+hull for placement of a battleship and carrier, maybe we should remove the hull, but it is fodder only normally. 1 german sub and 1 fighter normally takes those out on G1.
We now have custom dice!
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Re: Total World War: December 1941 Version 2.5

hepster
In reply to this post by orca
Good catch Invincible,  I so rarely ever try to finish that hull I had forgot all about it.
“A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition”― Rudyard Kipling
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Re: Total World War: December 1941 Version 2.5

Dima
In reply to this post by Rolf Larsson
Rolf your right about the thing that i ignore the 3-4 attack that tanks recive after 4-5 techs, but you allso ignore the all the support that Inf gets in the game, that is 2 att, and about 4 defence, and all from support and i m not gone include the defensive bonuses that they recive in all the terrains and the +1 attack in urban.
So if we comapre Inf with tanks stats wise and support wise, we get :
 
Inf : 2att 3 def (bases stats) + 1 average defence in any terrain + 1 attack in urban (most important battles) , +1 att from suport ( 2 with techs) +2 def ( 4  after 4 techs)
So from a simple math you get Inf with a avrage stats around 3 attack 6 defence, all for 3pu.

Tanks : 6 att 5 att (base stats) - 2 average  defence in any terrain -2 average attack in any terrain , +1 att from support ( 4 att after 4-5 techs)
So tanks avrage stats look something like : 6-7 attack 3 defence, price to pay for this = 6pu

Now if we compare the average situational stats of the 2 units we will realize that ther stats ar allmost the same, if we reguard the support they recive and bonuses from terrain. The big diference is made only by the price, the player pays 3 extra pu for the 2 space movement and the blitz ability that is ussles 99% of the time.

PS: I m just saying that the terrain bonuses should be rethot.
Why stay and die, when you can retreat and fight a other day when the odds are favorable to you?
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Re: Total World War: December 1941 Version 2.5

Rolf Larsson
This post was updated on .
Well lets do some math:

to compare directly 1 techresearch is needed, it is:
improved artillery:+1 def support for inf 1:1
improved tanks: +1 def for tanks, +1 att support for Mech.Inf 1:1
 
TerrainIndex:
Inf = +4/7=   0.57+2+3 = 5.6
Tanks = -18/7= -2.57+6+5= 8.4
Artillery = +1/7= 0.14+3+3 = 6.1
Mech = -2/7 = -0.29+3+3 = 5.7

To stay able to compare we pair those, still having the 1move and the 2move differentiation:

2inf+2art=14PUs
1tank+1mech=11PUs

now lets see what we get :
154(11*14) PUs:

Art+Inf*2=13.7*2 = 27.4  *11= 301.4 / by 24(att+def)=12.6
Tank+Mech= 8.4+6.7= 14.1   *14=197.4  / by 24(att+def)=8.2

means an average of +4 hits for art+inf after 3 rounds of producing those
more damage on 1movement vs. 2movement, blitz and carrying ability
and for the terrainindex islands are counted too, where tanks and mechs probably never appear
now taking into consideration that you have production at a max of 4 often 2 or 3 only, less and fast units are favoured.
lets have a short look at germany(major only) and see how long it takes to produce so many units and have them in lets say orel kursk for tanksmech; smolensk or voronezh for artinf
Factory output=8
Barracks output=15
28 tankmech=4rounds+3movement=7rounds,
22 infantry=2rounds
22 artillery= 3rounds+6movement=10rounds,
conclusion:
- slow units inflict slightly more damage;
- fast units allow for more threats, forcing the opponent to double its defensive efforts;
- terrain modifiers are very good overall, but can have a significant influence in particular situations;
- fast units allow for certain possiblities;
- mixed armies achieve best results, while stacking of certain types only, can not achieve best results;
- counting everything sucks and play by intuition rules
- if you have a tactical bomber available, boost your Blitzkrieg ambitions
- playing without technology is the worst choice, recommended for beginners only on 1st checkout
- urban terrain modifiers make those quick strikes with fast units vs. the most important territories much more difficult
 








We now have custom dice!
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