The Game of Thrones map bug

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The Game of Thrones map bug

Thersite
Hello fellow strategists,

The "Game of Thrones" map by Astrogator and Rolf Larsson is such a nice map that I started slowly working on it.

However, there is this annoying bug with the "Midlands Road" that I can't tackle because I can't get the first part of the map creator to work on my laptop (the cause may be windows 8 ?) and also because I have no clue about why those weird connections happen. It surely has something to do with the polygon grabber and a sharp edge somewhere, but... nothing about the borders strikes me and I'm powerless anyway.

So if anyone could fix this bug, I would be very very grateful. I'll keep modding and eventually post my work regardless of the bug, but it would be so nice to have a "clean" map.

By the way, thanks to the devs for this great game and to all of you amazing map makers out there.
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Re: The Game of Thrones map bug

hepster
You don't really need the map creator program.

If you go into the folder that contains all the map files you will see one that is an XML.

All you have to do is open the XML with note pad and make the needed corrections to the connections that are in there.  Save those changes and you are done.

“A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition”― Rudyard Kipling
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Re: The Game of Thrones map bug

Thersite
This post was updated on .
Thanks a lot for the quick response Hepster.

I never dared to venture directly in the xml before but it was easy, the connections are fixed.
All that remains now is the visual bug, but I'm thinking of a way to fix it manually too (with more time though).

Ps: 270BC and Total World War both look particularly beautiful
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Re: The Game of Thrones map bug

hepster
Yah manually changing the map requires a bit more work... but isn't really any more challenging then what you just did.


Thanks.  Appreciate the compliment.
“A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition”― Rudyard Kipling
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Re: The Game of Thrones map bug

alkexr
In reply to this post by Thersite
I've already answered this bug on another thread that seems to be abandoned:
http://tripleadev.1671093.n2.nabble.com/Game-of-Thrones-Maquis-td7583763.html#a7586086
I copy paste my post:
"I don't know if Qohor has already been corrected or not, but I guess I know what causes this behaviour, and also explains why Midlands Road is unexpectedly connected to some territories. If you have a look on the borders between Lhazar and Qohor and the one between Qohor and Midlands Road, you can notice that they are not complete, and thus not separating the territories. Therefore Polygon grabber grabbed the wrong polygons, which overlap, and when one territory changes owner, all the others get recolored as well. Then wrong polygons misled the auto connection finder (or something like that) causing unexpected connections. Finally, the "Midlands Road" name appears somwhere in the Dothraki sea, for the same reason. I didn't check if actually this is the problem, but seems very probable to me.

I was talking about the version downloadable from the map repository."

hepster wrote
You don't really need the map creator program.
Actually, you do, to correct the polygons. Connections are only one side of the bug.

EDIT: sorry, next time I will read all the messages before answering :)
Have you played any of my maps? Share your opinion!
Large Middle Earth
Russian Civil War
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Re: The Game of Thrones map bug

hepster
=)
“A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition”― Rudyard Kipling
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Re: The Game of Thrones map bug

Thersite
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by alkexr
Actually my guess about the polygon grabber was based on this post of yours alkexr, so thank you too.

Since then I discovered Veqryn's modding tools and managed to fix the bug by copying and pasting some datas.

I plan to polish the graphics a bit more and post a clean version of the current map with proper credits and description, and then I think I'll do my own version with new units and modified stats and production tables, maybe politics if I manage to.

So far I've added sounds from the middle-earth map, removed the goblin riding Stark's direwolf, the wounds from the unsullieds, made the backgrounds of flags transparent, added a custom neutral flag and fixed a lot of pixels here and there in Arryn, Baratheon and Freecities units. As soon as I'll be satisfied with the units of all factions I'll post the clean version and then start working on my own.

I'd like to make more fitting units for the Dothraki as well as a proper horsearcher but that will be difficult since I'm not a graphic artist, so that will come later if it ever does.
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Re: The Game of Thrones map bug

Cernel
GREAT. So much looking forward to this.

I hope you will post a debugged and polished up version ASAP.

BTW, aside from the bugs, the issues are:

- Targaryen is Over Powered
- Tully is Under Powered
- A few units are obsolete (like the Catapult, for many players)
- The 2 hits units have the same image for the damaged ones, being confusing (I simply suggest not having 2 hits units at all)
- Naval bombard is unable to return fire (in v1/default it should be able to) (also, no return fire from bombard is tiresome, in FFA)

I really doubt anyone in his right mind will be against you taking FULL ownership of this map, if you ask for it (since it is broken, bugged, abandoned and in development).

Cheers

EDIT: I would also MUCH suggest to limit the naval bombard to the number of unloaded units (so, making it fully v3 rules compliant)
History plays dice
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Re: The Game of Thrones map bug

Thersite
This post was updated on .
Sorry for the deleted post, I'm new to this and messed up.
Here you go: http://www.mediafire.com/download/9wm612n98y244q5/Game_of_Thrones.zip
EDIT: everything works fine again.

Thanks for raising the issues Cernel, I'll keep them in mind for my own version.

I'm not dropping an email as I won't be tweaking this one, this is simply to get me started and to pay tribute to everyone who contributed to this great map and TripleA in general. Please post here if you can't get it to work or if you find a bug though.

I don't know how map ownership works, but I don't think it really matters for now. I'd love to be in charge of it but all I did was copying and pasting some stuff and recoloring units. If you guys like my next version then it could become the "official" one I guess ? But this is way too soon to tell.

Have fun !

Changelog version 1.4:
-> Midlands Road bug fixed
-> Revamped graphics
-> Credits in Game notes
EDIT: Low luck off by default is back, it was a bad idea to set it on as it benefits unsullieds and Targaryens are strong enough already.

Ps: I have a feeling I'm not the only one working on a GoT map... I could be wrong but I hope I'm right !
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Re: The Game of Thrones map bug

Quorthon4
Hi,

Thanks for the update. One note though, file names are case sensitive and if not named correctly will cause errors on some systems, so Tully/raft.png actually needs to be renamed to Tully/Raft.png and so on.

Here's a fixed version of Game of Thrones map: https://www.sendspace.com/file/gsttav

On another note, I would suggest making Bloodrider cost 6 instead of 7, Khal cost 8 instead of 9, Catapult cost 5 instead of 6 and Trebuchet cost 6 instead of 7.

Also, I would prefer if all factions had at least one unit with attack value in sea battles. Currently Dothraki have no air units and only 0/1 raft sea unit, which makes them unable to attack at sea.
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Re: The Game of Thrones map bug

Irinam
Quorthon4 wrote
Also, I would prefer if all factions had at least one unit with attack value in sea battles.
Currently Dothraki have no air units and only 0/1 raft sea unit, which makes them unable to attack at sea.
You might remember, George R. R. Martin wrote that the Dothraki hate the sea!
There simply are no Dothraki seaman, so having no sea Units at all would probably be more accurate.
But for gameplay and balancing reasons, the 0/1 rafts make sense...
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Re: The Game of Thrones map bug

Quorthon4
Irinam wrote
You might remember, George R. R. Martin wrote that the Dothraki hate the sea!
There simply are no Dothraki seaman, so having no sea Units at all would probably be more accurate.
But for gameplay and balancing reasons, the 0/1 rafts make sense...
In situations like these, I always prefer to make some compromise between what makes the most sense and what's reasonable from a gameplay mechanics standpoint.

Let's assume the Dothraki conquer the entire eastern continent, or at least some major ports of it. Is it still reasonable that they won't have any ships at all apart from rafts?

Some possible ways to resolve the problem that come to mind:
* Make rafts 1/1 instead of 0/1 (possibly also reduce movemet from 2 to 1)
* Use "Unit Placement Restrictions" to prevent ships from being built in any region originally owned by the Dothraki.
* Give the Dothraki option to build inferior ships, let's say Mercenary ship that is 1/1 for cost of 10.
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Re: The Game of Thrones map bug

hepster
You could get around this and appease the story line by making certain territories that contain ports.  Then you could have the game start with the Dothraki having no port cities and no way to build a port.  In this way you could ensure that the only way they could ever get ships of any type is to first capture the city Territory of another nation that has ship building capabilities.

Just an idea.
“A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition”― Rudyard Kipling
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Re: The Game of Thrones map bug

Thersite
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Quorthon4
Hi everybody,

Sorry about the caps, I should have double-checked that.

I think you are all right, and that unit placements would solve the problem. Recruiting Unsullied only in Essos and Knights and Swornswords (a new unit) only in Westeros would make sense and prevent the total loss of the game's flavor as the match goes on.

While we're at it, here are all my ideas for the next step, feel free to comment.

First of all, I think Dragons and Direwolves should not be recruitable. At all. As the fastest land unit and the only air one of the map, it would make them very precious and give another depth to the gameplay of Stark and Targaryen (should I attack this territory knowing that if the enemy retaliates I could lose my special units forever ?).
It would also help the balance of the game, as Targaryen building an army of Dragons and keeping them safe behind legions of fodder is over-powered and not fun.

Next, politics seem like a must.

The starting alliances would be:
 Tully-Stark
Lannister-Baratheon

The starting war would be:
Tully-Stark VS Lannister-Baratheon
Greyjoy VS Tully-Stark
Greyjoy VS Lannister-Baratheon
Targaryen VS Freecities
Targaryen VS Lannister-Baratheon

And all the other relationships would be neutral at start. Of course, all of this would change (or not) as the game goes on.

Next, the new units, attachments, and production tables:


Production tables:


Tully: Sellsword – Swornsword - Archer – Catapult – Trebuchet – Knight – Raft – Galley – Warship – Castle – Fortification - Tower

Tyrell : Sellsword – Swornsword - Archer – Catapult – Trebuchet – Knight – Raft – Galley – Warship – Castle – Fortification – Tower

Stark: Sellsword – Swornsword - Archer – Catapult – Trebuchet – Knight – Raft – Galley – Warship – Castle – Fortification – Tower

Arryn: Sellsword – Swornsword - Archer – Catapult – Trebuchet – Knight – Raft – Galley – Warship – Castle – Fortification – Tower

Lannister: Sellsword – Pikeman – Archer – Crossbowman –  Catapult – Trebuchet – Knight – Raft – Galley – Warship – Castle – Fortification – Tower

Baratheon: Sellsword – Swornsword - Archer – Catapult – Trebuchet – Knight – Raft – Galley – Warship – Castle – Fortification – Tower

Martell: Spearman/Desertraider – Archer – Catapult – Trebuchet – Horsearcher – Greenbloodboat – Galley  – Castle – Fortification - Tower

Targaryen: Sellsword – Archer – Unsullied – Catapult – Trebuchet – Raft – Galley – Valyrianwarship – Castle – Fortification - Tower

Dothraki: Horsearcher – Horselord – Bloodrider – Khal – Raft – Galey – Castle  

Freecities: Sellsword – Archer – Unsullied – Pitfighter – Catapult – Raft – Galley – Trireme – Castle – Fortification - Tower

Freefolk: Archer – Wildling – Warg – Catapult – Giant – Mammoth – Raft – Castle

Greyjoy: Sellsword – Ironraider – Archer – Catapult – Trebuchet – Knight – Raft – Longship – Greatship – Castle – Fortification - Tower


Units attachments:


Infantry:

Sellsword: 1/1/1 supportable 1 TC 3 PU

Swornsword: 1/2/1 supportable 1 TC 4 PU

Pikeman: 1/2/1 supportable 1 TC 5 PU

Ironraider: 2/1/1 supportable isMarine 4 PU

Spearman/Desertraider: 1/3/1 supportable 1 TC 5 PU  
(name undecided, Martell's core unit)

Unsullied: 2/2/1 1 TC 4 PU

Pitfighter: 3/3/1 1 TC 7 PU

Archer: 1/1/1 support 1 TC 4 PU

Crossbowman: 1/2/1 support 1 TC 5PU

Wildling: 1/2/2 supportable 1 TC 5 PU

Warg: 3/3/2 support 1 TC 10 PU

Giant: 4/4/1 supportable isTwohit 2 TC 15 PU


Artillery:

Catapult: 2/2/1 support 2 TC 6 PU

Trebuchet: 4/1/1 support 2 TC 8 PU


Cavalry:

Knight: 3/2/2 blitz 2 TC 7 PU

Horselord: 1/1/2 blitz 2 TC 4 PU

Horsearcher: 1/2/2 support 2 TC 5 PU

Bloodrider: 3/3/2 blitz 2 TC 8 PU

Khal: 4/4/2 supportable 1 TC 12 PU

Mammoth: 2/5/2 blitz isTwohit 2 TC 15 PU


Ships:

Raft: 0/1/2 3 T 8 PU

Galley: 2/2/2 1 T 10 PU

Warship: 3/3/3 2 T 14 PU

Longship: 2/2/2 supportable 10 PU

Greatship: 3/3/3 support 1 T 14 PU

Trireme: 2/2/4 4 T 14 PU

Greebloodboat: 0/1/2 4 T 8 PU

Valyrianwarship: 4/4/2 2 T 1 C 16 PU


Constructions:

Castle: isFactory 20 PU

Fortification: 0/1/0 2 PU

Tower: 0/4/0 5 PU


Special:

Direwolf: 4/3/3 10 PU

Dragon: 5/4/4 1 CC 20 PU


Neutral:

Mountainclansman: 2/2/1

Troll: 2/3/1



As you can see I plan on introducing Swornswords to add variety to the basis of Westerosi armies. The Lannister are dirty bastards so they can't recruit Swornswords but they have the expensive Pikeman and Crossbowman to train.
Units of the Freefolk and the Freecities are different too.
More ships. I'm still not sure about the transport capacities, the movement points and the carrier for Targaryen. (as well as the PUs of course, by the way Frostion's table was very helpful to start so thanks to him even if it still needs balancing.)
Finally, I think fortifications and Towers are a nice way to fortify a territory (currently impossible), Middle-Earth style, catapults and trebuchets are more offense-oriented to counter-balance that but it would still be very difficult to sweep another player all by yourself so that is good for alliances and betrayals.

Finally, about unit placement restrictions, I guess:
Unsullied (and Pitfighters ?) could only be recruited in Essos
Knights and Swornswords in Westeros
All ships above the raft in "Ports" (main coastal cities and castles ?)

Please share your thoughts, I'm still a newb and this map is a fascinating but very complex project for one man alone.
I keep starting territories and units last as it will determine the balance and I'm not quite here yet.
I read the books some months ago and mainly used this to refresh my memory: http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Military_forces_of_the_Seven_Kingdoms

I'll update the download link with a flawless version of the game in a short moment, sorry again about that, I swear I checked everything but I guess I messed up between the different versions I keep on my computer.
EDIT: ok everything works fine and I know what happened. I checked the first but not the second upload with the new cursor and territory names hidden and I forgot I did some units tests in between. It's fixed.

Have a nice day.
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Re: The Game of Thrones map bug

Mandalon
In reply to this post by hepster
Hi,

I did a minor overhaul of the unit graphics (mostly to make them visible against both light and dark backgroun) and I also did graphics for the "hit" 2HP units, plus a new graphics for the castle and horse archer.
If you write me your mail address, I can send them to you. I made them single color so it's easy to change them according to the owner.
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Re: The Game of Thrones map bug

Frostion
In reply to this post by Thersite
Thersite wrote
Frostion's table was very helpful to start so thanks to him even if it still needs balancing
Thanks. However, I am working on a new fantasy universe map that is much larger than my previous Caribbean map and with many more unit types. The new map will have a much larger land mass, and then cavalry/2+ move units are much more usable then on the Caribbean map. Therefore, I do not follow my old table on that aspect. I just use it as basic, like you.

Instead of Caribbean’s:
1 move = free / 2 move = 0.6 / 3 move = 1.2 / 4 move = 1.8
I have chosen every move above 1 to cost 1 PU each (at the moment).

After this, I also stepped back and tried to see what I had to re-value manually so that the prices would make sense when compared.

In addition, when I have the time, I will have to test my Carribean map and my new map fantasy with the new Hard AI that now values unit’s support abilities and prices. I want to see how the AI shops. I would like to keep my maps AI compatible and have the AI shop reasonable and diverse.

I have not tried out your map yet (do not have time atm), but tell me:

• Regarding your units, do you have 3 types of support that every “supportable” unit can receive?

On my map, I am aiming on having infantry as “receivers” of support (including missile infantry like archers) and have 3 types of offensive support: Cavalry, Artillery and Character (Officers, Wizards etc.). Of course, also Castles and fortifications that gives defensive support to every type of unit. Map will be 8 sided dice.
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Re: The Game of Thrones map bug

kor438
In reply to this post by Thersite
For what it's worth, I also spent some time last year trying to update this scenario.  What I came up with can be downloaded at
https://www.mediafire.com/?53b1axtf74f5kn3
and might be worth raiding for ideas, imagery, etc.

I was eventually stymied by not being able to convince the Others to attack, even when they had overwhelming numerical superiority.  Might be better now with the new Hard AI, though I haven't had a chance to re-test.
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Re: The Game of Thrones map bug

Raphael
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Thersite
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Re: The Game of Thrones map bug

Cernel
In reply to this post by Thersite
Awww... Was hoping somebody would have fixed the GoT map in the repository soon...

But it is still buggy, unbalanced and with obsolete units.

(but not too unbalanced; main problems are those couple bugs)

Seems like a few dudes made some improvements tho, at least correcting the bugs... Why don't you just propose it for depot, in substitution of the current one, that it is not really playable anyway?
History plays dice