Star Wars: TripleA ... Help me obi wan kenobi! You're my only hope

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Re: Star Wars: TripleA ... Help me obi wan kenobi! You're my only hope

Frostion
The maps are done.  I have made 2 maps. “Galactic War” and “Tatooine War”. Both maps have a 4v4, a 4 teams of 2 and a FFA version. I think they are ready for release. But…

For testing purposes, I have run very many playthroughs where the AI plays against AI. I set the “AI pause Duration” to a minimum (50 ms) to speed up the game. I have found and corrected many errors this way. But I have also encountered an odd error that I can’t explain. Actually, I have seen this error twice.

It seems like it is after a battle that this error occurs. Looks like battles are not resolved, as these two screenshots from round 23 shows:

Round 23. The Mandalorians attack an Imperial “Repulsor Regiment” with an artillery unit:


Round 23. When the next player, Tusken Raiders, has his round, the previous battle does not seem to be resolved?:


Round 24. The Jedi attack the area called “Dry Sea” where a Tusken Raider unit called “Sand People” is standing. The Jedi attacking unit is called “Combat-Speeder-Group”:


Round 24. This battle also ends up locked and unresolved, as you can see here?:


This is around the time where this java error pops up … but the game does not crash, it continues.
Error wrote
triplea.engine.version.bin:1.8.0.3
java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No line matching interface Clip supporting format PCM_SIGNED 16000.0 Hz, 24 bit, stereo, 6 bytes/frame, little-endian is supported.
        at javax.sound.sampled.AudioSystem.getLine(Unknown Source)
        at games.strategy.sound.ClipPlayer.testClipSuccessful(ClipPlayer.java:632)
        at games.strategy.sound.ClipPlayer.createAndAddClips(ClipPlayer.java:580)
        at games.strategy.sound.ClipPlayer.parseClipPaths(ClipPlayer.java:430)
        at games.strategy.sound.ClipPlayer.loadClipPath(ClipPlayer.java:387)
        at games.strategy.sound.ClipPlayer.loadClip(ClipPlayer.java:373)
        at games.strategy.sound.ClipPlayer.preLoadClip(ClipPlayer.java:350)
        at games.strategy.sound.SoundPath.preLoadSounds(SoundPath.java:206)
        at games.strategy.triplea.ui.UIContext$1.run(UIContext.java:115)
        at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: No line matching interface Clip supporting format PCM_SIGNED 11025.0 Hz, 24 bit, mono, 3 bytes/frame, little-endian is supported.
        at javax.sound.sampled.AudioSystem.getLine(Unknown Source)
        at games.strategy.sound.ClipPlayer.testClipSuccessful(ClipPlayer.java:632)
        at games.strategy.sound.ClipPlayer.createAndAddClips(ClipPlayer.java:580)
        at games.strategy.sound.ClipPlayer.parseClipPaths(ClipPlayer.java:430)
        at games.strategy.sound.ClipPlayer.loadClipPath(ClipPlayer.java:387)
        at games.strategy.sound.ClipPlayer.loadClip(ClipPlayer.java:373)
        at games.strategy.sound.ClipPlayer.preLoadClip(ClipPlayer.java:350)
        at games.strategy.sound.SoundPath.preLoadSounds(SoundPath.java:207)
        at games.strategy.triplea.ui.UIContext$1.run(UIContext.java:115)
        at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
Exception in thread "AWT-EventQueue-0" java.lang.IllegalStateException: Not all units present in:Dry Seas.  Trying to remove:[Repulsor-Regiment owned by Imperial-Remnant, Sand-People owned by Tusken-Raiders] present:[Sand-People owned by Tusken-Raiders]
        at games.strategy.engine.data.RemoveUnits.perform(ChangeFactory.java:591)
        at games.strategy.engine.data.ChangePerformer.perform(ChangePerformer.java:57)
        at games.strategy.engine.history.History.changeAdded(History.java:206)
        at games.strategy.engine.history.HistoryWriter.addChange(HistoryWriter.java:248)
        at games.strategy.engine.framework.HistorySynchronizer$1$1.run(HistorySynchronizer.java:69)
        at java.awt.event.InvocationEvent.dispatch(Unknown Source)
        at java.awt.EventQueue.dispatchEventImpl(Unknown Source)
        at java.awt.EventQueue.access$400(Unknown Source)
        at java.awt.EventQueue$3.run(Unknown Source)
        at java.awt.EventQueue$3.run(Unknown Source)
        at java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method)
        at java.security.ProtectionDomain$1.doIntersectionPrivilege(Unknown Source)
        at java.awt.EventQueue.dispatchEvent(Unknown Source)
        at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpOneEventForFilters(Unknown Source)
        at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEventsForFilter(Unknown Source)
        at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEventsForHierarchy(Unknown Source)
        at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEvents(Unknown Source)
        at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEvents(Unknown Source)
        at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.run(Unknown Source)
What is going on? Is this because the AI is messed up and miscalculates? Is this an error in my XML? Is it one of my units that has an error?
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Re: Star Wars: TripleA ... Help me obi wan kenobi! You're my only hope

Cernel


BTW

What are the actual truly representative alliances for the time?

The galaxy divided between 2 well defined sides at war?

4 sides of 2 powers each, for some reasons?

Each power on his own against everyone else (only 1 shall prevail, at the end)?

Should this map have diplomacy? How should it work, in this case?

I think you should specify which one is the main, representative, version; and which ones are the gamey variations.

(since AI seems to be inevitably part of the fray, anyway, if the FFA version is the correct one, I'd suggest to just have it only, with the unplayed players being played by the AI player, Feudal Japan style)

p.s.: You should always test on what you're giving away; meaning testing the final zipped folder (especially if you're on Windows).
History plays dice
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Re: Star Wars: TripleA ... Help me obi wan kenobi! You're my only hope

Frostion
Well … It’s not Star Wars history made into a TripleA map. But it is a possible scenario in the the Star Wars Universe.

I imagine the maps taking place like 18 ABY (After the Battle of Yavin). That would be like 14 years after the Battle of Endor, where Emperor Palpatine, Darth Vader and the Death Star were destroyed. The New Republic was rising and the last of the Imperial loyalist retreated to the outer rim of the galaxy and settled on the planet Bastion. (Many other imperial warlords tried to battle and defeat the New Republic before this … but all failed.)

The Light Side Alliance: New Republic + Jedi Order + Corellians + Mandalorians.
The New Republic has Coruscant as its capital. The Jedi Order supports the Republic but is not acting like Generals and Warriors for the Republic. They are just “guardians” of peace and so on. The New Republic and Jedi are natural allies.

The Corellians joined the New Republic in 12 ABY, had a “Corellian Insurrection” where bad guys and Corellian separatists wanted to leave the republic. But eventually the do-goodie New Republic got Corellia back under control, and they remained under control.

The Mandalorians never joined the New Republic. They had no love for the old Imperials as they “occupied” their planet and suppressed their warrior culture. They were pro-New Republic, thought about joining, but never joined. Because of their hate to the Empire and acceptance of the Republic, they are Light Side.

The Dark Side Alliance: Imperial Remnant + Corporate Sector + Hutts Gangsters + Black Sun Syndicate.
Well, the last of the Imperial Loyalists (called Imperial Remnant by their enemies) was at constant war with the New Republic. They formed a new government, the Council of Moffs, and made Bastion their capital. The Imperial Remnant was losing the war and eventually made peace with the New Republic in 19 ABY. (But my Star Wars maps are set in 18 ABY.)

The Corporate Sector was a corner of the galaxy that under the Old Republic and Palpatines Galactic Empire was allowed to run their own business. It was lead by the largest corporations of the galaxy. Of course they were not nice to people, had slaves, their leaders were oligarchs, undemocratic and so on. CorpSec was a corporate police state. The Empire was also dealing a lot with them. CorpSec bought up much of the Empires old military hardware to use as their own. Among other things, the Empire sold 520 old Victory Class Star Destroyers to the Corporate Sector.

The Hutts and the Black Sun also had a tendency to work behind the scenes with the Empire. So they also qualify as Dark Siders.

4v4: This is the main scenario.

FFA version: I don’t think this scenario is realistic … but what the hell. It just a game

4 teams of 2: More plausible then FFA. But a galactic war with 4 parts would not make sense. The only sense is by having two sides Empire and Republic, then adding a Neutral force who fights for independence and a criminal force who fights for power, money and control. I like to think that this is what is going on in the 4x2 map.

Diplomacy is not a part of my maps. But people are welcome to edit the XMLs and make new versions. I just do not see the point. Moreover, an Imperial and Republic alliance would be ridiculous.

Well ... the maps are out now. (or will be very soon) Please try them



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Re: Star Wars: TripleA ... Help me obi wan kenobi! You're my only hope

Zim Xero
this game has been added to the map repository.  It was placed in the 'quality' section despite lack of sufficient play-testing, due to supurb graphics and lack of detectible flaws.   IMO, the Tatooine map has the best gameplay for most TripleA players, whereas the Galactic map provides a non-traditional playing experience.  Fantastic job!
'thats the way it is' makes it neither desireable nor inevitable
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Re: Star Wars: TripleA ... Help me obi wan kenobi! You're my only hope

Cernel
In reply to this post by Frostion
I advise against specify game dynamics in the title of the main game.

That's usually a thing for mods and variations:

So, I suggest to change.

"Star Wars: Galactic War 4v4"

to just:

"Star Wars - Galactic War"

Then, like in "Napoleonic Empires", I would name the variations as:

"Star Wars - Galactic War: 4 Alliances"

"Star Wars - Galactic War: FFA"

(also, 4v4 and 4x2 sounds confusing)

Same stuff for the other one.

I mean, we have a lot of 1v1 games; it would be silly if each one would have the tag 3v2, 3v3, 6v6, etc. at the end.

Cheers
History plays dice
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Re: Star Wars: TripleA ... Help me obi wan kenobi! You're my only hope

Stan
In reply to this post by Frostion
I discovered this yesterday.  It's a very cool nontraditional use of the system.  I've only tried the galactic version so far.  Visually, it's much more complex than other TripleA games as each of the 8 sides has its own set of unit symbols - I don't usually know what I'm facing.  What would be really helpful is a table of all the units, which includes special abilities.  For land units, knowing the size for transport, if it can give support, and it is supportable is nice to know.  For sea units, I'd wanna know their carrying capacity and whether they are a carrier - the notes .

The dynamics between the large ships and the very long range fighters is interesting.  

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Re: Star Wars: TripleA ... Help me obi wan kenobi! You're my only hope

ZjelcoP
ingame: help > unit help. All you need is there
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Re: Star Wars: TripleA ... Help me obi wan kenobi! You're my only hope

Stan
Hah! Thanks.  I can't believe I've played a dozen different maps and never made use use of that.
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Re: Star Wars: TripleA ... Help me obi wan kenobi! You're my only hope

Zim Xero
This post was updated on .
Both repository download versions have been updated to v1.1
Someone made a bot for Star Wars Galactic War in the online lobby.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 
Solo gameplay on both maps is more engaging if you give AIs +20 PUs flat income bonus.
'thats the way it is' makes it neither desireable nor inevitable
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Re: Star Wars: TripleA ... Help me obi wan kenobi! You're my only hope

Cernel
In reply to this post by Frostion
You surely don't like Low Luck!

If you want to increase the dicey strategic element of the game, consider going over to a 12 dicesides system, but keeping the current strenght values, from 1 to 4 (so that you will cut by half the probability of hitting).

BTW, I'd suggest having no stuff preloaded on transports at start game (especially for AI players) and switch the position of "AI Bonus Attack" and "AI Bonus Income Flat Rate".

Talking about Galactic, I definitively agree with your decision of keeping very low the quantity of stuff at start game, despite the map being a big one. I was very uncomfortable with the enormous quantity of stuff of florin's Star Wars map.

Playing a new unconventional map is already overwhelming; so very good you kept Units count down, although I don't like that 200 PUs for everyone thing. But maybe it is just a temporary thing, waiting for more balancing, by changing starting PUs?

So, yeah, keep the total units on the map low, like it is now, and maybe think about lowering starting PUs around 100.

Anyway, just giving off the cuff opinions; just about the most superficial things.

Going specific, I would immediately suggest 2 things:

1) Making Jedi units into "isinfranstructure" units (destroyed upon capture) having AA attacks and defence against anything it makes sense for a Jedi to kill (like normal attacks, but with casualties removed with no fireback; like the subs, but on land). Also, Jedi should have transport cost 0 and being able to be transported on watever ship and air units, also the ones unable to transport. You can obtain this by giving just 1 transport capacity to every ships, while no land units have transport cost 1 (Jedis have 0) and making all Jedi air able to paratroop, with the Jedi being the only transportable unit (no AI support para, tho).

2) Considering having air being able to stay on sea without being destroyed (you can do it)

Also, it remains the fact that in an all island map air is overpowered with respect to land units; in particular, those movement 10 air are deadly.

Finally, I definitively suggest you to choose all rule behaviour and clarify them all in notes tab. In particular, I suggest being able to place new air on new and existent carrier.

Also, I suggest to be able to land existing air on new carriers; but not being able to validate movement due to this. You can obtain this by putting Combat Move before Purchase; and this is a thing that I would higly advice anyhow (in big maps Combat Move really needs to be before Purchase).

Cheers

p.s.: Does Nothing is not really substitute for having a player deactivable; since, despite its name, it buys stuff start game and place it (well, it currently bugs off, on your map, but this is beside the point). So, I still suggest making powers deactivable, like in Napoleonic Empires FFA; it would also help in case people want to play only some.

p.p.s.: This map has a lot of potential; so I would advice you keep fine tuning it, instead of considering it already finished. Also, a map like this one you need to play against some of the best players in TA lobby, sometime (problem would be convince them, tho).
History plays dice
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Re: Star Wars: TripleA ... Help me obi wan kenobi! You're my only hope

Frostion
This post was updated on .
Thats a lot of good ideas, especially the Jedi ones. . But what do you mean by "switch the position of "AI Bonus Attack" and "AI Bonus Income Flat Rate""? Do you mean the option before game start? I think they are set to 0 at start, and that they are optional to adjust. Am I wrong?  :-O

The few placed units the galaxy has at start is only meant to give a picture of the factions. Criminals at Kessel,  Jedi on Yavin, Mandalorians hovering over Hoth and ready to use the old abandoned base and so on. But I can se the problem in having some factions already loaded their ships wih troops and others not.
The 10 move fighters are actually meant to be one of the areas where his map is different compared to other maps. In the star wars universe starfighter squadrons can strike other planets and return the same day.
The 200 PUs at start is meant to give players a chance to by customize their strategy. Do they want to go for big, strong, small, fast or whatever. After start the PU income is sparse.
.... gotta get to school.  Bye ;)
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Re: Star Wars: TripleA ... Help me obi wan kenobi! You're my only hope

Frostion
In reply to this post by Frostion
Back from school Again, Yay!

I do not agree on the higher dice system and lower luck (8 and 12?). Personally, I hate long drawn battles and the waiting time when other players move and fight. I actually like the higher-than-normal speed this map seems to have atm. But, this is a matter of … temper? (English is not my native language)  

I don’t think I will have much time to work on changing stuff and rules on this map. Also, I agree that making "powers deactivable" would be great. However, I actually do not know how to do this. Anyone with the expertise is welcome to make this change and make a version 1.2.

(...Waiting for Zim Xero to remind people not to start mass-producing versions and wanting them to be uploaded to repository )

Better yet, If someone would try to make a totally new version of the map, with a lot more changes. When I designed this map, I  thought mostly on in-universe unit realism (like the carry/transport cap.), diverse playing styles, factions controlling specific planets from the start (with less regard to who neighbors them, friend or foe, but more regard to placing these planets where they are in-universe). So yes, there might be some balance issues.
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Re: Star Wars: TripleA ... Help me obi wan kenobi! You're my only hope

Cernel
This post was updated on .
So, I'm not going to take over the xml development of this map because I don't like it enough (mostly because I don't think an all-island map can be really interesting, playwise), I don't know the Star Wars universe (and I really do think that a map should be highly representative, either according to history or to the relative lore) and I kind of want to focus on a map of mine (MEAD), hoping to finish it, 1 day.

...but...

I'm totally up to help, if you ever want to implement/change something and don't know how to do it:

Relatively only to what's up atm:



1) Deactivable Powers

<player name="..." optional="..." canBeDisabled="true"/>



2) Switch Property Position

This way:

"
                <property name="AI Bonus Income Flat Rate" value="0" editable="true">
                        <number min="-50" max="100"/>
                </property>

                <property name="AI Bonus Income Percentage" value="0" editable="true">
                        <number min="-100" max="100"/>
                </property>

                <property name="AI Bonus Attack" value="0" editable="true">
                        <number min="0" max="2"/>
                </property>

                <property name="AI Bonus Defense" value="0" editable="true">
                        <number min="0" max="2"/>
                </property>
"



3) Jedi Force

"
<attatchment name="unitAttatchment" attatchTo="Jedi-Knight" javaClass="games.strategy.triplea.attatchments.UnitAttachment" type="unitType">
            <option name="attack" value="0"/>
            <option name="defense" value="0"/>
            <option name="movement" value="3"/>
            <option name="transportCost" value="0"/>
            <option name="isInfrastructure" value="true"/>
            <option name="destroyedWhenCapturedBy" value="FROM:Jedi-Order"/>
            <option name="damageableAA" value="true"/>
            <option name="isAAforCombatOnly" value="true"/>
            <option name="attackAA" value="4"/>
            <option name="offensiveAttackAA" value="4"/>
            <option name="maxAAattacks" value="1"/>
            <option name="mayOverStackAA" value="true"/>
            <option name="maxRoundsAA" value="-1"/>
            <option name="typeAA" value="Jedi"/>
            <option name="targetsAA" value="INSERT HERE ALL UNITS JEDI CAN ATTACK"/>
        </attatchment>

"

and be sure that:
                <property name="Units Can Be Destroyed Instead Of Captured" value ="true" editable="false">
                        <boolean/>
                </property>

Up to you to find a correct cost for it.

What about making the Jedi possible to be placed only on a territory with another Jedi already present?
This is the way:
"
<option name="requiresUnits" value="Jedi-Knight"/>
"

and be sure that:
                <property name="Unit Placement Restrictions" value="true" editable="false">
                        <boolean/>
                </property>

(this way if you lose all your Jedi, for the Jedi IT'S OVER)



4) (THIS IS SO IMPORTANT!) Putting combat move before purchase

Just switch the positions of:
"
<step name="Imperial-RemnantPurchase" delegate="purchase" player="Imperial-Remnant" display="Purchase Units"/>
"
and
"
<step name="Imperial-RemnantCombatMove" delegate="move" player="Imperial-Remnant" display="Combat Move"/>
"
("purchase" being after "move")

And do the same for all other players.



5) Placing new fighters on new carriers, Placing new fighters on old carriers, Moving old fighters on new carrier

"
                <property name="Produce fighters on carriers" value="true" editable="false">
                        <boolean/>
                </property>

                <property name="Produce new fighters on old carriers" value="true" editable="false">
                        <boolean/>
                </property>

                <property name="Move existing fighters to new carriers" value="true" editable="false">
                        <boolean/>
                </property>

                <property name="Land existing fighters on new carriers" value="false" editable="false">
                        <boolean/>
                </property>

                <property name="LHTR Carrier production rules" value="false" editable="false">
                        <boolean/>
                </property>
"
(the last one is redundant)
The above behaviours is what I definitively suggest for this map (I think that move on new carrier would be better, here, than land on the same).
They do not correspond to any particular main ruleset, so you have to explain them in notes tab.
A way you can do it, is by writing down that:
"Air-Carrier Rules are v2, except that new fighters can be mobilized on existing carriers."



IMPORTANT: I didn't test any of those things (lazy), so it is possible (and probable) something won't work because I've written something wrong or forgot something! But I trust you will correct bugs easy enough.



Cheers



p.s.: Regarding this map vs florin one, while I do think that the look of florin's is better, especially the look of planets and space and the pretty units, I definitively think that your map structure is much better, and this is the only thing that really matters (I really dislike the florin's structure, with 1 sea = 1 island, almost: it's dumb). Also, your relative map dimensions are very good, while florin map is too small. The main problem with your monocolour units is that it is very hard to memorize one and the other, so I have to keep clicking on the battlecalculator to know which unit it is, no way I can remember it from the mere details, but maybe I'm just dumb, so I need different colour to memorize. I guess you'll get to memorize them anyway, after a lot of games. Units like the florin ones but with a glow around, indicating the ownership (florins unit have the problem of knowing who is who, player wise, which can be solved either with specific colour glowing or by having a flag beside, but glow is better), would be probably the best (also, as Hepps said, a glow would make them more defined and allow you having a darker background, like florin's, that would look cooler). Since you like graphic stuff, you can always experiment alternatives with mapskins; you're in Quality, after all.

p.p.s.: Anyway, rulewise, I think it's good you keep it not too complex. I think florin's was too complex, especially with those confusing air battles.

p.p.p.s.: I suggest never going above strength 4, in a 6 dicesides game (so, avoid almost autohits at power 5 and autohits at power 6 (that's why I put Jedi’s strength at 4, instead of at 5)).

p.p.p.p.s: I duno about if it is worth it to make air able to stay on sea, because this would regard all air and make pointless all of your carriers. I think it would be cool that air should be able to stay on sea, but receive a movement boost if starting in a carrier, but this is not possible, atm, since movement boosts are applied to all units in a zone, not on a specific base (so, a carrier would boost infinite units).

edit:

A problem with the Jedi is that the AI and the autoselect (so, the battlecalculator too) will consider Jedi being crap (att/def 0/0). You can adress this in the same way Feudal Japan Warlords does:

By giving them attack and defence 4 (or whatever) and an equal negative support attachment.

"
                   <attatchment name="supportAttachmentJedi-Knightdefense" attatchTo="Jedi-Knight" javaClass="games.strategy.triplea.attatchments.UnitSupportAttachment" type="unitType">
                    <option name="unitType" value="Jedi-Knight"/>
                        <option name="faction" value="allied"/>
                        <option name="side" value="defence"/>
                        <option name="dice" value="strength"/>
                        <option name="bonus" value="-4"/>
                        <option name="number" value="1"/>
                        <option name="bonusType" value="Jedi"/>
                        <option name="players" value="Jedi-Order"/>
                        <option name="impArtTech" value="false"/>
                   </attatchment>
                    <attatchment name="supportAttachmentJedi-Knightoffence" attatchTo="Jedi-Knight" javaClass="games.strategy.triplea.attatchments.UnitSupportAttachment" type="unitType">
                    <option name="unitType" value="Jedi-Knight"/>
                        <option name="faction" value="allied"/>
                        <option name="side" value="offence"/>
                        <option name="dice" value="strength"/>
                        <option name="bonus" value="-4"/>
                        <option name="number" value="1"/>
                        <option name="bonusType" value="Jedi"/>
                        <option name="players" value="Jedi-Order"/>
                        <option name="impArtTech" value="false"/>
                   </attatchment>                   
"

Anyway, the main issue here would have been that Jedis would have had been taken as casualties first, and this is not a problem, in this case, as long as they are infrastructures.
Anyway, up to you about the infrastructure thing; maybe it makes sense them having hitpoints, lightsabers intercepting shots and all that... In florin's they even have 2 hitpoints.
History plays dice
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Re: Star Wars: TripleA ... Help me obi wan kenobi! You're my only hope

Zim Xero
This post was updated on .
I like both maps exactly how they are, with two exceptions:

1) Green and Turquoise look the same at a distance.

2) I see little point in using the air units that move 4.  I would bump their attack and defense up one and increase cost by 1 PUs to make them (and their carriers) more useful and distinct from long range fighters.


MAP OBSERVATIONS:

*** When I play tested the Galaxy map, I played the Jedi, but never bought any Jedi.  Unless transport capacity was limited... they are not cost effective.

*** On the Tatooine map,  taking out another home planet/base is a game-ender.  Five defenses are great for human games, but turns AIs into sitting ducks.
'thats the way it is' makes it neither desireable nor inevitable
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Re: Star Wars: TripleA ... Help me obi wan kenobi! You're my only hope

Ondis
In reply to this post by Frostion
Heya. Cool map but the Jedis have 3 movement points and this is completely useless. Even the guys with 2 seem to be underpowered. I guess this is for your other map, the one on a planet.

Think the units need a bit of tweaking to work for this one. Or larger planets!  
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