Stalingrad

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Stalingrad

aka
download @:


http://aka.gunlet.de/




I got some Q´s that are ask frequently:


[b]How to Install ?[/b]

Unzip the Downloaded "Stalingrad.zip"
You get a new folder "Stalingrad"   in it are the folders "maps" and the folder "games", from there you have to copy.

Paste to your normal triplea-folder (some like c:/programs/triplea/triplea_1_0_0_3) in there you find allso the "maps" and the  "games" folder

copy the file "stalingrad.xml" from the folder "games" to the folder "games" from your installed triplea version
copy the folder "stalingrad" from "maps" to the folder maps from your installes triplea version

done

[b]What is Stalingrad historycally ?[/b]

Its a WW2 theater of the battle russia vs germany.
In summer 1942 germans try to take the Wolga metropole Stalingrad.
Heavy city fights took place and noone of the both dictators Stalin and Hitler whats to retreat.

In the late November russen troops start a massive attack from there beachheads in the north and south
and serround the axis 6th army forces after 3 days.
284 000 german and rumainian soldiers was serrounded.

A breakout try from the axis was refused by Hitler.
All axis troops must be suppyed by air.
The well knowen leader should form an army to burst the ring arround Staningrad, Manstein.
He was not able to.

After 6 mounth of fighting the last germans surrender in february 1943.
More than 200 000 rumainian, russen, german and civillian die in this fight.


[b]Is this scenario historyc ?[/b]

Well I tryed to do my best.
Old WW2-maps was used for terretory nameing. The russens truely serround the german 6th army in r1-3 if they like.
Manstein comes in for help from the west. 6th army and russens fight in the city.
 
But certaily the 6th army coud not build troops in the city and I had to make bouth sides equal to make it a smooth ballanced game.



[/b] What is the fight all about ?[b]

the axis is dark grey (6th army/ 3. player) and light grey (Manstein/ 1. player) fight from left to right.
the allies is brown (russen defenders/ 4.player) and green (russen flanks/ 2. player) from right to left.
pink is neutral (no troops) you can blitz neutral terretoris with armor !!

city terretoris are tiny, it symbolyzes the street fights for every house.
serrounding terretoris are big and symbolyzes the possibility to move fast through open fields.

whats the turn order ?

light grey(Manstein), green (russen flanks), grey (6th army), brown (russen stalingrad defenders)

[b]what is the taktic of allies ?[/b]

Fight down the 6th army in the city before Manstein arrives. Especially the factoris are good aims.
Allso try to delay the arrive of Manstein troops in the city to do so you can serround the 6th army
with your 4 green armors (or less?) in the north and south and meet in the back in "kalatsh and sowjetzki". Advance your income fast.
A factoriy for the "Stalingrad defenders" on the westsinde of wolga is maybe good but I ´m not sure.

 [/b]what is the taktic of axis ?[b]

for the 6th its possible to get hand on some ipc in eary rounds but than its nessesary to retreat, you are fighting 2 players now,
until Manstein arrives. But you have to retreat like a lion (just like russia in asia in the revised game).
no new faktories, to build up an airforce is useful and flexible.
Manstein have to arrive as fast as possible. To do so he has to reach "kalatsh and sowjetzki"(11ipc) and build a faktory there.
until then he can olny build 1 unit (fighters are good).

 [/b]is it only a "one front" scenario [b]
no, because of the serrounding moves and the possible fights arround "kalatsh and sowjetzki" with is the key for a fast incoming Manstein
and meanwile place taking fights in the city. Players have to decite where to send troops and what is more relevant to do.
I think its nice and komplex map.

[/b]Can "kalatsh and sowjetzki" go to the 6th army ?[b]

Yes thats possible, than you have a extrem strong 6th army and far less help from Manstein. Allso nice to play  B)
There are many possibilities arroud that 11 ipc terreroy it depends on bid placement, luck, and of couse players strategy.
I saw Manstein reach it in r2 and build a faktory in r3. Or 6th army get and hold in in r1.
I saw the russens hold it ´till r3 and retake it in r4 or 5.
So, look out the fight in the back of the 6th. But don´t forget the city fight´s.

[/b] Are there no ships in the scenario ?[/b]

No ships, just air and ground units, wolga river can be crossed where the red arrows are showen.
(to see them plz turn the "map details" on)


[b]When is the game won? [/b]

I think if the income differance is more the 25 ipc [u]and[/u] the TUV difference is more than 200 there is no chanse for the lower player.
Normally the critical moment for axis is when a 6th army faktory falles and can not be retaken.
And for the allies when the axis troops  have most of stalingrad city and start to lurk over the wolga.


[b]Is it ballenced ? How mutch is the bid ?[b]

It´s 10 bid for axis thats 6 to Manstein and 4 to the 6th army.
This bid is got to be locked and must be taken exakt like this, no transpher alloud.

Players bid for axis (like in revised) and start with 5 bid. This extra bid can be splitted or go to just
one axis player.
(for example:     player bid 5 and gets it. Player decides to put 4 to Manstein (thats 6 normal bid + 4=10)
                      can build 2 armor; and put 1 bid to 6th army (4 normal bid +1=5) able to buy a armor too.

I think its quite good. More than 40 games took place until here. But I need some feeback tough !!!
Maybe because of the komplex fightings on different fronts, I think its nessesary to have 2 or 3 games to understand the stategy right.
So please ppl and pros out there take your favorite bro´ give it a roll and post some!!!
Many players test it and mostly I get a "great map ! "


good hunting !



aka
aka
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Re: Stalingrad

aka
nothing ?  
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Re: Stalingrad

ThisIsATest
I recently checked out your 6th Army in Stalingrad map, it was very unique especially in lay out terms. I am however a bit confused by the "Neutral" territories on the map, I for my own sake am curious what they are, I assumed they were areas not of much signifigance (since this is a Stalingrad map). I noticed there was a territory in there that was worth 11, now I assume that is for Manstein to capture and build a factory on. Overall it was a quick game, even when I used the AI it was still a very hard fight for the Germans, one way I found to survive, which is pretty much the goal of both German players, is to retreat back with the Germans and wait to be reinforced. The only problem is the Russian player has not only the strategic advantage but also the production advantage. Based on the time this is historically acurate but for the game it tends to be a up hill battle. This only causes a problem for balance issues i.e. the Russian player has the advantage and if a veteran player uses the force, I see no reason why they should not win most of the time (luck not included :-3). For me I like the challenge and can appreciate the creativeness map wise. For the casual gamer I see it as a very hard map to replay. Had one quetion about the Free Russian, I left it as human controlled and had no problems, I was just curious what that glitch is all about. Cheers and good work.
aka
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Re: Stalingrad

aka
In reply to this post by aka
Hello ´ThisIsATest´ !

First of all, thank you for doing my map.

Plz notice:

Most important!!: The "6th army in Stalingrad” is the oldest Version of my Stalingrad maps.
Please download “Stalingrad” and install. Iman put more work in the map.
Turn the “map details” on ! There´s a lot of new graphics, units and other changes to implant some more “stalingrad-feeling”. Nowadays looks like this:



The 11 IPC territory is “Kalatsch and Sowjetzki” .It s an important place and you are right, Manstein have to build a factoty there as soon as possible. Please read up in this blog to improve your strategy.

I think the AI is no good to balance a map. But its right that the both russen player press hard  on the 6th army.  You can also find some strategy for all players up in the text.

The Germans get some bid. Experienced players use some of the bid to buy Manstein
an armor to pressure on “Kalatsch and Sowjetzki” 1 round earlier. Find out the optimal ways on this territory. There is a lot af taking and retaking possible.

About the uphill battle, I think you are not right. There is a lot of balance in the map and maybe you forgot to bring some bid to the Germans. (Bidding rules are also up in the text).

Syr for that neutral player "free russians", I have to use that ´dummy ´player to make it possible to blitz neutral territory with armor. The normal rules don’t allow to do so with neutrals.


solong

aka
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Re: Stalingrad

Hippolinae
In reply to this post by aka
Thanks for this great map.
Luc
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Re: Stalingrad

aka
You are welcome !






I need some Generals for that map testing - maybe you are one of them.

When I play humans I win with both sides. Opponents say its lean on my side.

I think its ballanced right now and some bid will do the trick.


There are some advanced issues.
The Q´s I have is:

1. Is it good for "russen defenders" to build faktory(s) ?
2. Is is good to bring in "6th Army" Bomber to "kala" and/or attack "russen flanks" armor ?
3. Is is good to bring  "russen defenders" fighters in round 2 to "kala" ?
4. Whats the weakest point of "6th army" ; "main train station" or "gumrak" ?
5. Is it a even game if "russen flanks" don t take "kala" in round2 and "6th army" holds it ?
6. "6th army" bid next to "kala" or to the city front ?
7. Has anyone good experience in: "russen flanks" push to retaking "kala" in round 5 ?
8. Good when "6th arny" build a faktory ??
9. Is is good if allies attack one weak point or better two hit "main train station" and "gumrak" ?
10. I do play a lot LL. Is it allso playable with dice ?


Can you give correct answers to that Q´s ?

I would be nice when the aswers are from generals who have more than 2 game "Stalingrad" with human opponents.


Thx to all players who play my map and want to help to give it the last polish.

Thx for playing my map Hippolinae - good hunting !!



aka




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Re: Stalingrad

Hippolinae
To answer you (very late, sorry), I think you should try to stick to the reality of this Battle.
The major effort of the Russians in Stalingrad was to cut the link between Germany and Stalingrad. Therefore, there should be bigger incentives for both armies to have this connection point.

To answer some questions:
1. Is it good for "russen defenders" to build faktory(s) ?: For me, I have never build them, as i try to conquire the production site of the Germans,
2. Is is good to bring in "6th Army" Bomber to "kala" and/or attack "russen flanks" armor ? Bombing is a very important to weaken all armies.
3. Is is good to bring  "russen defenders" fighters in round 2 to "kala" ? Yes
4. Whats the weakest point of "6th army" ; "main train station" or "gumrak" ? For me, Main Train Station
5. Is it a even game if "russen flanks" don t take "kala" in round2 and "6th army" holds it ? I ahev never tested this option.
6. "6th army" bid next to "kala" or to the city front ? For germany, a very good option is to maintian russian in one of the points to pass the river. All russians then have ton concentrate their troops there to maintain this point and therefore, you can attack in another part. Another easy option to win is to use the tanks and their capability to move twice: one to attack adn then to go back to the defending position. If IA was able to use this technic, it would make harder for humans to win.
7. Has anyone good experience in: "russen flanks" push to retaking "kala" in round 5 ? No
8. Good when "6th arny" build a faktory ?? Yes, definitively where there can build up to 11 unites
9. Is is good if allies attack one weak point or better two hit "main train station" and "gumrak" ?
10. I do play a lot LL. Is it allso playable with dice ? Sorry i don;t understand this
aka
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Re: Stalingrad

aka
Thx Hippoliane,



I hope we meet once in the lobby, roll some and discuss the map.



solong





aka
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Re: Stalingrad

Slavic_Dog
In reply to this post by aka
I believe I have the file downloaded everything in the correct folder.  However, when I go to run the scenario I get a pop-up error about an incorrect map case.....any suggestions?
I can't seem to find the problem...  Thanks.
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Re: Stalingrad

Slavic_Dog
Nevermind.  Finally figured it out.  The folder under the /maps folder needed to be all caps - STALINGRAD.  Rest of it was correcting case on unit and flag files.  
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Re: Stalingrad

JayBee
In reply to this post by aka
Thank you for this great map... It seems like a good well-balanced game.
I am in the process of making it as a desktop size game for ftf gaming.
I have only played (and experimented) with it against AI (and myself) so far, but let me try to answer your questions:
1. I don't think it's necessary... But it is still possible.
2 + 3. Again it is possible, but not a must.
4. Main Train Station
5. Yes
6. City front
7. Don't remember, sorry
8. There have to be a factory at the 11 PU site. Axis strategy decides who will get it. It is possible to win (I belive) no matter who of the two gets the spot. No other factory is necessary
9. Both is possible
10. I will soon find out :-)

Jan.
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Re: Stalingrad

FireZealot
Is the version on the link bellow the most recent one?
http://sites.google.com/site/tripleaerniebommel/home/mods/TripleA_Quality_Mods_EB.xml
To the meaningless French idealisms: Liberty, Equality and Fraternity, we oppose the three German realities: Infantry, Cavalry, and Artillery - Prince Bernhard von Bülow