NEW WORLD ORDER

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RE: NEW WORLD ORDER

Gneis

Gladly coward Ernie I send you the  testing game here is the file ans also the saved game with coward Guerrilla, I want you to ask you a favor...

Can you send me the new image that you make for italian Elites to avoid confusion with german ones?

Concerning my opinion I think that Germany can do alot more with naval at cheaper price (but also the allies), the problem is that while strengthening naval, advancing in USSR seems very slow and difficult (Well that happens also qithout low prices right? when germany focus on naval) I think that C Poland Factory could help producing 2 units isnt huge but helps a little Germany my question is How much Neutral Units do I add and if that happens should I increased one USSR territory by one instead of adding units (That could be a solution to prevent massive attack on Finns right?) What do you think of my Initial set up?

Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 05:25:01 -0700
From: [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: NEW WORLD ORDER

Hey Gneis,

yesterday, I joined ur game again, but again wasnt able to watch it. Could you send me your current version, or post me a link, ideally together with a savegame.
What are you feelings about your testgame with guerrillaJ, especially about the naval changes?

Regards,
EB

-------- Original-Nachricht --------
> Datum: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 11:03:05 -0700 (PDT)
> Von: "Gneis (via Nabble)" <[hidden email]>
> An: OnanTheBrBr <[hidden email]>
> Betreff: Re: NEW WORLD ORDER

>
>
>
> One thing I have been thinking coward Ernie with Artilleries at 3.5 who
> will
> buy Elites? for .5 extra you have artillery support and the same odds as
> Elites!
>
> Another thing maybe C poland should have a Factory? To be more historical,
> it could be streghten enough and give ussr somethins to compensate that
> dont
> you think so?
>
> ______________________________________
> View message @ http://n2.nabble.com/NEW-WORLD-ORDER-tp2187321p3789824.html
>
> To unsubscribe from Re: NEW WORLD ORDER, click
> <Link Removed>
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1.6.1NWOGneis_XrayExt.rar (6M) Download Attachment
guerrilla axis.tsvg (240K) Download Attachment
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RE: NEW WORLD ORDER

OnanTheBrBr
Hey Gneis,
thx for the files.
Concerning the factory: I would even think it to be most interesting, if not placed in C.Poland, but rather in Lodz instead. Why? A good German player usually uses Lodz in round 2 as a "teleport". Lodz is attacked with all the inf from C.Poland, and at least one additional unit from Lvov in such a way, that 4 hits are scored, and then all units retreat to Lvov, giving the C.Poland inf an effective 2 steps this round. This means that if Germany plays that way, the factory is only available for take in round 3, thus for production only in round 5, so that it should not disturb early game balance. It thus means Germany has to make some interesting choices.

Adding extra neutrals there means Germany losing extra inf there then. That is very dangerous, since the critical inf difference a perfectly played Russia needs to stop a Germany cold in Ukraine is only 3. So I really do not advise to put extra neutrals there.

I am not sure if raising Russias income even further is wise, but if done, I would raise Brest, Minks or maybe Lugansk by 1. The reasoning is that this rewards a Germany, which plays aggressive in the east (while allowing for the western allies to land in Europe), and makes it more difficult for a Germany with a focus on navy. The chosen territories are likely to be traded for some time, and the traded money would very likely go to Rumania and Russia, not Germany.

Regards,
EB
For Downloads, Help, Maps and Links, visit Bommel's TripleA Supply Depot
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RE: NEW WORLD ORDER

OnanTheBrBr
This post was updated on .
The Full NWO 1.7EB thread is found here: http://n2.nabble.com/NWO-1-7EB-package-tp3803641ef1671093.html

######## I am proud to announce the release of the NWO 1.7EB double package. ########


It is intended for all that hold NWO 1.6 dear. This means that it is actually very conservative, only
optimizing or polishing a couple of things. All opening strategies of 1.6 will still work, with early
and intermediate gameplay virtually unchanged. The late game however should be a little less prone to become stuck, with the artillery and the BigArmor lowered slightly in price, and a bit more diverse, with previously unattractive units made a bit more attractive now.




2 versions are included in the package:

 -> 1.6.5EB is very conservative, featuring the old unit names, old unit turn order and no generally lowered naval costs. It is thus VERY close to NWO 1.6, just fine tuned and nicer looking.

 -> 1.7EB features the changed phase order and a general cost reduction of naval units.



In short, the important changes are:

1) The prices of formerly unattractive units were lowered a bit:
   a) The Artillery and the BigArmor, S.Sub, Cruiser and T.Boat
   b) All naval units received a small discount     (only NWO 1.7!)

2) A couple of convenience tweaks were applied (LL prechecked, Tech Phase removed etc.)

3) Quite some cosmetic enhancements were done, especially cooler Game Notes.

New Game Notes look (thx to Dr.Che!'



Get it here: http://sites.google.com/site/tripleaerniebommel/home/mods/NEW_WORLD_ORDER_1.7EB.zip?attredirects=0&d=1




It might be interesting to notice that it was already 1.6.1EB, which was chosen to be included in the most recent unstable TripleA 1.0.3.4 release (in its "traditional turn order" version).

This version here includes all the little tweaks made for the TripleA 1.0.3.4 release. It runs flawless under TripleA 1.0.3.4.



Changes compared to 1.6 in complete detail:

 Units and Map:
 -> BigArmor costs lowered by 1 to 7(8)
 -> Artillery costs lowered by 0.5 to 3.5(4)
 -> BB costs lowered by 3 to 21(24)
 -> Carrier 14(16), Cruiser 13(15), S.Sub 11(13) costs lowered by 2     (NWO 1.7 only)
 -> Destroyer 11(12), Submarine 7(8), Transport 7(8) and T.Boat 5(6) costs lowered by 1   (NWO 1.7 only)
 -> Cruiser 14(15), S.Sub 12(13), T.boat 5(6) costs lowered by 1     (NWO 1.6 only)
 -> Russian starting money raised from 20 to 23
 -> Romanias starting money raised from 2 to 4
 -> UK has 2 t-boats in sz30 instead of just 1
 -> UK has 2 Inf in Jordan instead of just 1
 -> Italy has 4 Inf in Albania instead of  3
 -> Mot.Inf can officially Blitz now

 Convenience:
 -> Tech phase taken out.
 -> LL checked by default (although NWO plays well with dice!)
 -> New Phase Order: COMBAT MOVE / PURCHASE / combat / non-combat move / placement (for faster gameplay and

for being more beginner friendly)    (NWO 1.7 only)
 -> Default rules for all situations where dispute may arise, including exploits.

 Cosmetic:
 -> New Game Notes
 -> Italian Elites distinguishable from German ones now
 -> Destroyer picture replaced with a better one
 -> Erroneous east/west territory names corrected
 -> Unit names changed:
       Trucks        -->   Mot.Inf    (NWO 1.7 only)
       Halftracks    -->   Mech.Inf    (NWO 1.7 only)
       Scouts        -->   Tankettes    (NWO 1.7 only)
       German Armour -->   Panzers
 -> XML file cleaned up
For Downloads, Help, Maps and Links, visit Bommel's TripleA Supply Depot
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RE: NEW WORLD ORDER

OnanTheBrBr
This post was updated on .
Here is the complete Game Notes from NWO 1.7. They are slightly distorted (wrong colors, positioning, text size), but it gives a reasonable impression, I think. Thx go to Dr.Che for inspiring this with his work on 270BC. .
====================
#NEW WORLD ORDER#
====================

1.7EB


Its the 1.Septemeber 1939 at 4.45cet
The German operation FALL WEISS just started
How will the fate of the World turn? ...



Map by: sieg
Balance and Game Notes by: ErnieBommel
Special thx to Gneis, odessa, ice, krustyshorts and guerillaJ

Unit size of 56.25% with map at 100% recommended.



Alliances
Axis Allies
Germany Russia
Italy France
Colonial French
Finland UK
Romania US

(Nations listed in their Turn Order. Alternatively, refer to the "Stats" tab.)


Land Units
Unit name att def move cost size special abilities
Infantry 1 2 1 2 S isSupportable
Elite 2 2 1 3 S isSupportable
Tankette 2 1 2 3.5 S (get 2 for 7), canBlitz
Artillery 2 2 1 3.5 L (get 2 for 7), givesSupport
Mot.Inf 1 3 3 4 L canBlitz
Mech.Inf 2 2 3 6 L givesSupport, canBlitz
Panzer/Armour 3 3 2 5 L canBlitz
AAGun 0 1 1 5 L isAA
Factory 0 0 0 15 H isFactory
Unit name att def move cost size special abilities

Air Units
Unit name att def move cost special abilities
EarlyFighter 2 3 4 8 canLandOnCarrier
Fighter 3 4 4 10 canLandOnCarrier
Bomber 4 1 6 15 canDoSBR
Unit name att def move cost special abilities

Naval Units
Unit name att def move cost special abilities
T.boat 2 1 1 5
Transport 0 1 2 7 Transport up to 1 S + 1 S/L unit
Submarine 2 2 2 7 isSubmarine
Destroyer 3 3 2 11 isDestroyer
Cruiser 3 3 2 13 Transport up to 1 S unit, canBombard
Carrier 1 3 2 13 Transport up to 2 air units
Battleship 4 4 2 21 isTwoHit, canBombard
Unit name att def move cost special abilities


BUNKERS and Units with a RED DOT should NOT be bought BEFORE ROUND 4

Special Units
Unit name att def move cost size special abilities
BigArmour 4 4 2 7 L canBlitz
Katjusha 3 1 3 6 L givesSupport, canBlitz;/td>
Me262 4 2 5 12 canLandOnCarrier, canDoSBR
Lancaster 5 2 8 20 canDoSBR
B29 5 2 8 20 canDoSBR
S.Sub 3 3 3 11 isSubmarine
Bunker 0 3 0 6 isTwoHit, read below *
Unit name att def move cost size special abilities

*-For every territory, owned at the start of the turn, a maximum of ONE Bunker can be purchased PER TURN.
-In territories with a Factory, place them USING THE FACTORY.
-In territories without a Factory, place them using EDIT.
-The EDIT function can be found in the upper TripleA menu. Its use is rather straight-forward and intuitive.


==========================================================

Rule Clarifications and Hints


Default Rules for Disputable Situations:

-> Unloading of Transports from a COMBAT SEAZONE into a friendly territory, PRIOR to combat, is possible, due to a TripleA bug, but considered illegal.

-> Completely empty neutral territories can be taken by planes during combat movement. This is considered legal.

-> Manually flying over Neutral territory during combat movement is technically possible, but considered illegal. (helps balance G2-Paris take)

-> Use the UNDO function for the Carrier is legal when performing Carrier-Ftr movement. However, for EVERY Ftr, there has to be a landing spot provided (thus using the Carrier for more then 2 Ftrs or for 2 Ftrs going different directions, requiring different Carrier positions, is NOT allowed). for ease of use, it is not allowed to make Ftr movements based on the assumption that a Carrier could pass through a just cleared seazone in NCM. (as it actually is legal under LHTR)

-> AA's on Transports fire on planes passing over them during combat move. This is of course considered a bug, and should be corrected in the rare case of occurence.

-> Read the clarified Bunker rules above!


Differences due to the New Phase Order:

-> Under the New Phase Order, one knows any air losses from AA fly-overs during combat movement before his purchase.

-> Under the new phase order, Germany could spend captured money from a COMPLETELY empty Paris, taken in combat move, right away in the purchase phase. (advised Allies leave one Inf behind if abandoning Paris)


Strategical Hints for Beginners:

-> UK ftrs on french carriers experience awesome effective action range.

-> Paris can be made to fall in Germany2 ( less then 1% total chance of failure) Expensive though!

-> Russia can pressure Finland hard, or attempt to stop Germany early in Ukrainskaya.

-> Western allies can successfully invade through Spain, Scandinavia or Italy itself.

-> Italy can have Tunis, Morroco and Greece by Italy2


==========================================================


In NWO, Balance and Replay Value come first.
Historical Accuracy is secondary.


==========================================================

Version History


Changes compared to 1.6:

Units and Map:
-> BigArmor costs lowered by 1 to 7(8)
-> Artillery costs lowered by 0.5 to 3.5(4)
-> BB costs lowered by 3 to 21(24)
-> Carrier 14(16), Cruiser 13(15), S.Sub 11(12) costs lowered by 2
-> Destroyer 11(12), Submarine 7(8), Transport 7(8) and T.Boat 5(6) costs lowered by 1
-> Russian starting money raised from 20 to 23
-> Romanias starting money raised from 2 to 4
-> UK has 2 t-boats in sz30 instead of just 1
-> UK has 2 Inf in Jordan instead of 1
-> Italy has 4 Inf in Albania instead of 3
-> Mot.Inf can officially Blitz now

Convenience:
-> Tech phase taken out (Tech use would be absurd in NWO).
-> LL checked by default (although NWO plays well with dice!)
-> New Phase Order: COMBAT MOVE / PURCHASE / combat / non-combat move / placement (for faster gameplay and for being more beginner friendly)
-> Default rules for all situations where dispute may arise, including exploits.

Cosmetic:
-> New Game Notes
-> Italian Elites distinguishable from German ones now
-> Destroyer picture replaced with a better one
-> Erroneous east/west territory names corrected
-> Unit names changed:
Trucks --> Mot.Inf
Halftracks --> Mech.Inf
Scouts --> Tankettes
German Armour --> Panzers
-> XML file cleaned up

Changes compared to popular version 1.4:

-> Tankette price upped from 3 to 3.5 (2 for 7IPC)
-> Me262 price lowered to 12
-> Mot.Inf defense upped from 2 to 3
-> BigArmor defense from 3 to 4, price from 7 to 8
-> Cruisers transport 1 small unit now. Cost 15 (14).
-> Bunkers Now Buyable 0/3/0/6 Two Hit (available after
round 3 / for more details see Bunker description above!)
-> +4 Inf Russia, divided over Kuby., Kazahk, Svedl.
-> +3 IPC starting money for Russia
-> added 2 Bunkers to Leningrad
-> added UK T-boat in sz30, UK Transport in sz31
-> Dover (UK) upped to 2
-> added US Bomber in w.US, Tank in Central US
-> added Colonial Transport in sz59, inf in C.Algeria
-> Lebanon, Syria, S.Canada (all Colonial) all +1 income
-> Romania starting IPC raised from 2 to 4
-> Hungary income raised from 2 to 3
-> added German T-boat in sz26
-> Baleares raised from 0 to 1 income


==========================================================

Thanks to:


# sieg for making NWO

# krustyshorts and corsair for making the great unofficial 1.5 version

# odessa, guerillaJ, ice, warmonger2, Ready, Judgementday, and Frontline for all their input, ideas, suggestions and feedback

# Gneis for making a joined version 1.6EB+Gneis version with me, thus ending version madness

# Furthermore Sieg for taking all the over everything from 1.6EB+Gneis unchanged for his official 1.6

# And finally ComradeKev for choosing version 1.6.1EB to be included in the unstable 1.0.3.4 release (with traditional turn order and old unit names)

# And of course, a big thx to ComradeKev and the other TripleA developers, the host of the lobby and the maintainer of the forums. Big thx to ComradeKev also for dealing with the TripleA legal issues
For Downloads, Help, Maps and Links, visit Bommel's TripleA Supply Depot
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Re: NEW WORLD ORDER

sieg
In reply to this post by sieg
Hi folks

long time i was in here... but as i can see the community grows well and NWO is still played hehe

specially eb. did lots of work for nwo and the whole community cheers for that

but there are 2 little things i want to be noticed:

1. the stage in which eb developed and balance this map in some details are after the 20th update of mine, so i think "Balance and Game Notes by: ErnieBommel" is not realy right.
so it would be nice that this work of mine would be noticed in the credits in this term some of the players, who helped me to find the balance till this stage, should get credits too.
these players are: Hippotamus, ice, admetus, garbled and axisgeneral.

2. I like that the new eb version is implementet in the game but i dont like the new phase order.
i think this should stay konservativ...

happy new year

greets sieg
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Re: NEW WORLD ORDER

OnanTheBrBr
Hey sieg,

nice seeing you around again. Thx for the "cheers" - and congrats  with the ongoing success of your map.

About the Phase Order: We have a whole bunch of new players on NWO now, even outnumbering the veterans most of the time. Many veterans expressed their appreciation of the somewhat faster gameplay due to the current Phase Order; no one complained towards me so far. Considering that and the new players, I think it actually will be the "conservative" approach to keep it as it is now.
The faster gameplay is one advantage. But I think what makes it priceless is that it becomes much easier for beginners to get a grip on the map. And the map needs new players to stay alive.

I will see to it to change the text somehow, of course. Maybe "final balance by EB", plus mentioning your 20 balance cycles in the "thanks" section? Of course I will also mention Hippotamus, admetus, garbled and axisgeneral there. Ice is mentioned already, I think.


Greets and happy new year,
EB
For Downloads, Help, Maps and Links, visit Bommel's TripleA Supply Depot
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RE: NEW WORLD ORDER

Captain Nub
In reply to this post by OnanTheBrBr
I love this map, it makes Triple A a consumate favourite for me.

Are you guys every going to work on a full world map with the level of detail and attention you paid to NWO?
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RE: NEW WORLD ORDER

OnanTheBrBr
There exists "ultimate world". Maybe search the forums for it. Two of the best NWO players even balanced it in a first serious attempt recently. It is on the brink of playability though, due to its size. And because of the long time a game needs and the limited amount of people spending this much time, far fewer games been played, making the task of balancing a very challenging one too, to say the least.

However, if u want something this big, make sure u check it out.
Also, if u love really huge maps, make sure you check out aka's "First Punic War". It is hosted in the "Resources section" of the Depot and is a huge historical Rome/Carthago map - both well done and with some cool unit ideas. Just too big for my taste.
There is also "Domination" there, a very detailed amazing mapwork, hand drawn especially for axis and allies related purposes with immense attention to details. It is a full world map and has featured as a baseline provider for various other maps, who then used part of it. Unfinished work in terms of playability though.
 

PS.: if u like NWO, make sure to also check this thread for some strategic hints:
http://n2.nabble.com/NWO-1-7EB-package-tp3803641ef1671093.html

EB
For Downloads, Help, Maps and Links, visit Bommel's TripleA Supply Depot
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Re: NEW WORLD ORDER

sieg
In reply to this post by sieg
First preview of the NWO Final Edition


coming soon....


Bilderhosting bei Imageloop

Bilderhosting bei Imageloop
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Re: NEW WORLD ORDER

sieg
Here are the brand new relieftiles for my lovely nwo game

take it or leave it hehe...

http://rapidshare.com/files/352575611/reliefTiles.rar

greetz

sieg
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Re: NEW WORLD ORDER

OnanTheBrBr
Cheers.

To inform all who got involved in the "gotten-out-of-hand" episode: Sieg and I had a good, straight and productive talk.

This means there will be a version satisfying both our vision of a good NWO release - and hopefully satisfy the community even more ;).

The new relief tiles will be available in the Depot tomorrow evening too, for easy installation.
Regards and gn8,
EB
For Downloads, Help, Maps and Links, visit Bommel's TripleA Supply Depot
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Re: NEW WORLD ORDER

sieg
In reply to this post by sieg
RELIEFTILES

Brand New and Finetuned




try them....

http://rapidshare.com/files/353070891/reliefTiles.rar

(Replace existing relief folder in triplea nwo map)

have fun

greetz

sieg





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Re: NEW WORLD ORDER

OnanTheBrBr
siegs NWO relief tiles are now included as the standard relief tiles in the freshly released NWO 1.7.6, since they are both rather small (only 6 MB) and in a quite perfect stage.
As can be seen above, they preserve the look of the map mostly, while making it look a lot finer.

For the friends of a look more like that of a topographical map, as well as ocean with waves, gudkarmas relief Tiles are also available as an alternative set for convenient download from the Depot and 1-click toggle from the menu under "View"/"Map Skins".

Couple things fixed in NWO 1.7.6.

EB
For Downloads, Help, Maps and Links, visit Bommel's TripleA Supply Depot
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Re: NEW WORLD ORDER

Gneis
hi coward ONAN! Although we were discussing that Allies have a slightly adavantage over Axis, in which way do you thin the extra T boat for Italy in sz 41 help balanced things? and I would like to know why a Uk Bunker is added in Gibraltar? Hope you clarified it for all the NWO community!
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Re: NEW WORLD ORDER

OnanTheBrBr
Hey Gneis,

I actually still believe that 1.7 is balanced. Anything else would still have to be demonstrated.
The UK bunker in Gibraltar is for decorative reasons. It does not seriously affect anything. Also discussed it with a couple people, so didnt take the decision solely on my own.
Since I could not remove the 2 UK men, since they are part of some early UK strats, functioning to refill a UK transport going south for some strategical variants, and since Italy is somewhat vulnerable to a concentrated early UK/US push into the med, I compensated the axis with the italian t-boat. It needs considerable time to reach any position were it might play its little role. Just like the bunker, it actually wont change anything significantly. The compensating mechanism for UK/US going south is Germany getting a free hand, and I still think that works just fine, although I consider the allies focusing on the med being one of their best options.

Hope this explains enough and is satisfactory an answer,

EB
For Downloads, Help, Maps and Links, visit Bommel's TripleA Supply Depot
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Re: NEW WORLD ORDER

Gneis
Although I rarely do this movement I remember when you tell me not to eliminated the Paris 2turn Rush, and though Gibrlatar´s Bunker is cool if someone want to take in first turn gibraltar with German Trannies now is impossible (I do it sometime ago) so it affects that opening I think Germany have to be compensated there if they want to do that movement what do you think?
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Re: NEW WORLD ORDER

OnanTheBrBr
you actually are right, I remember that move. Comparing it to G2-Paris seems a little far fetched though both in terms of complexity as well as impact. The early attack on Gibraltar was pretty much a dead end.

Axis got already a compensation of comparable low impact and worth - the Italian t-boat.
I am surely not planning on changing the setup any further. Would rather undo the change then, since, as said, it is for decorative reasons.
But I think, removing the possibility of a Gibraltar attack only removes a pitfall for beginners from the game, while it it does not impact the game at any other level significantly. I do not quite see why the axis should be compensated further, when all that is lost is the option to perform a pretty obsolete move.
So at the time being, I am inclined to leave it as it is.

In general, you are right about losing options being a bad thing, of course. In this specific case, its tolerable though - at least for my part.

Regards,
EB
For Downloads, Help, Maps and Links, visit Bommel's TripleA Supply Depot
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Re: NEW WORLD ORDER

Gneis
I dont mean to compare in terms of impact the 2 turn Paris rush with Gibrlatar one, only remaining you that you are enemy of eliminating openings, only that, I like both, the Bunker in Gibraltar and the T boat for Italy are cool, and I vote for mantaining them, I would like to see soon a NWO Worl with China and Japan! that would be a super cool step to for my opinion the best game already in the lobby!
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Re: NEW WORLD ORDER

Wandler
Hi folks

(1st post in the board YAY!)

First of all, I love the NWO map and me and some friends are playing it regularly.

Still, we encountered the Problem that, with the smarter AI, the game gets regularly stuck and crashes.

Is there anything we are doing wrong?


Furthermore: Is it intentional that you can not land troops from your transport right into an invasion anymore?

Because it seems to be that way now.

Please help

Wandler
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Re: NEW WORLD ORDER

OnanTheBrBr
In reply to this post by Gneis
@Gneis
You are perfectly right with the point you made. Sorry if I failed to communicate that before defending the change. As for a "NWO - world" version, I have my doubts. First, there actually is ultimate world. Then, as others also stated earlier, I believe NWO somewhat represents kind of an upper boundary for a given map in terms of size - at least if it is to recruit a sizable fan-base. So a world version would have to have the territorial resolution be reduced, in order not to increase the total amount of territories. The result of such thing actually kind of exists already - Big World. But thats just my vision of it.

@Wandler
What you experience is actually not a NWO issue, it has to do with the TripleA engine. Keep in mind all current releases are tagged "unstable" not for nothing. More specifically:
In 1.2.1.0, there was an issue with the AI, rendering AI games on the NWO map impossible - but other games worked fine.
In 1.2.2.0, this AI issue was fixed. However, as a sideeffect of an improvement, amphibious invasions were bugged for all maps that used WW2v2 rules (like NWO). Ironically, this bug ultimately also causes the AI to hang up again.
Concluding: For Human-vs-Human games on NWO, use 1.2.1.0. For AI games, use a TripleA version below 1.2.1.0.
I myself hope for a working next release, since I saw the NWO community dwindle under the influence of the latest troubles.
But lets not forget the numerous fixed issues and the improvements that all came along meanwhile.
EB
For Downloads, Help, Maps and Links, visit Bommel's TripleA Supply Depot
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