This post was updated on .
NEW WORLD ORDER 1.8.1
- Can Produce New Fighters on Old Carriers (optional, but checked as default)
- - 1 neutral Infantry in lodz
- Grafic Changes
- 2nd relief, basetile and map proporties optional for customisation
dl extract NEW_WORLD_ORDER put this in triplea x.x.x maps
+NEW WORLD ORDER+
This post was updated on .
Oi sieg, thx for setting the links here, been asked a lot for them. And thx for finally staying with 1.4 (allthough the krusty 1.5 is a good alternative for strong axis players).
As Ready stated wisely, the allies just needed time to adapt to the G2 german take of Paris. Willy displayed one version of reacting today, against me, which at least did put the opening on one level with the classical take. Too many complaining, too few good thinking there was about it in the community.
Axis losses after willys move amounted to the following, compared to standard G1-G2 moves:
3 ftrs 1 bomber in Reims (unlucky, admitted. But happened)
3 tanks 2 inf in Lille.
1 extra lost inf in Metz.
1 tank in Paris.
2 subs (compared to 0-1 subs) in sinking the baltic fleet (can even be worse)
1 DD in the russian counter on the baltic remains (DD didnt hit back)
3 ftrs lost in Reims (French struck first, keeping their ftr. then Royal airforce finished off)
1 Tank in Dijon
4 inf in Switzerland (with no Neutral Fly-over)
and additional inf lost in Marseille
total additional TUV loss compared to a standard G1-G2: 124 IPC
1 French inf in Dijon (I1), another in the Dijon counter (F1, 3inf and retreat)
1 inf 1 tank in Reims
1 inf in Lille
5 inf 1 Arm in the Lille counter (F1)
3 inf in Paris (G2 takes)
1 Ftr in Lille cleaning (UK1)
total additional loss compared to a standard G1-G2: 49 IPC
Furthermore, the norhtern russian fleet could sink the finnish cruiser for no loss and get free there. UK also killed off the german sub protecting the important finnish sub.
Germans won 28 IPC from the french, which these otherwise would have spent (56 IPC difference on the sheet, but actually worth less, since the germans always get a good deal in taking Paris). Also, they got 1 IPC (Lille) + 3IPC (Dijon, italy) extra. The extra income from Paris they only get a turn earlier, since classical take would also capture that with the fall of Paris.
Putting the numbers together, letting the bad deal with the atlantic/northern subs, the finnish cruiser and the russian fleet escaping aside, the numbers put together are -129(losses)+60(gains) for axis and -49(losses) for the allies, amounting to a -20 IPC difference to the disadvantadge for axis compared to a classical approach. On top of this comes that the german Luftwaffe is occupied in the west, the russian fleet and the hidden continuing costs of lost airforce (bad eastfront trades). Germany also HAS to build 4 trannies AND a Carrier in order to save finnland (trannies-only buys can be countered by russia bying airforce, making shipping suicidal in G2), so buying is NOT free choice at all. Additional trannies might be needed in G2.
Germany wins 5 tanks for the eastfront though and can skip buying scouts and halftracks for Paris.
The 4 inf italy has to sacrifice also hurt in the Med, as well as the ftrs being far away (or lost).
This scenario IS NOT representative, in included a COSTLY bad dice streak in Reims. But it happened.
All in all, I doubt strongly that the G2 Paris is unbalancing.
Other variants exist for allied reactions, including simpy retaking Dijon, blocking Reims with AA or 1 inf and landing UK ftrs in Paris for a decent trade of UK TUV vs german TUV, as well as a russian push on Finnland, combined with russian air denying shipment, US and UK bombing of finnland and UK strafing the german fleet for killing the 2 trannies.
Sieg, first thanks for this fantastic map which has quickly become addictive. If I don't finish my PHD, I'm blaming you!
I've only played against myself and a friend, but I don't see how Paris can be taken by the Germans within the first three turns.
I've found it difficult to take Paris because on the second UK turn, I just fly all 8 UK fighters into Paris, giving them a total of 9 early and 1 advanced fighter, plus around 20-25 infantry depending on what has been moved in. In this case it quickly becomes extremely difficult for the Germans to take Paris.
Am I doing something wrong? Or what? What's the proper set of moves for the Germans?
Its a sophisticated move and the game existed quite a bit before finally odesa and Ready came up with a first version - giving me the chance to add the last polish.
I dont go into all details, but the key elements are:
-Germany takes Lille by sea (2inf 2 tanks)
-Germany kills all units in Reims by air (looks weird, but its all about denying a french counter on Lille)
-Germany takes Lyon with its 3inf 1rtl
-Germany takes Metz (8 inf 4 arm 4 ftrs are enough)
-Germany takes the Netherlands and Berlgium
-Germany moves the Frankfurt tank to Lille in NCM (non-combat-move)
-Germany gets the the 2 tanks from Bremen to Belguim (for a total of 6 tanks in Belgium then)
-Italy takes Dijon with 2 tanks
-Italy lands 3 ftrs in Lille (one can reach it directly, 2 have to fly over Swiss. If neutral flyover is not allowed, italy can still get these 2 to Lille by attacking Swiss regulary with 4 inf 2 ftrs and then retreating after the first round of combat)
Thats the (in)famous G2 Paris take.
-disadvantadges are listed in the post above.
-landing UK air in Paris is possible for a more or less fair trade (-12 for the allies) and binding the german airforce for a round, but it wont save Paris.
-total chances of failiure of this opening are existent, but neglectable (about 1% in the case of the worst case of germany only having 1 tank left in Lille, while the chances for that already are 1/18ht)
-The move is NOT a gamebreaking one, if all is put together. Combining it with a pure scout buy (thus abandoning finnland) might be the only exception there.
Thanks. That's interesting and very creative. I did it on the fourth turn simply by ignoring the low countries and lille and blowing in everything through Metz & Dijon. Took two turns, and infantry all die on turn 3. Then blow in again with over 20 armor and a big batch of infantry.
I think your way might be better, though.
Does anyone know where you can download version 1.5 of the map? It was a little bit more balanced, since with 1.4 I feel the axis have a slight edge.
here is a version the axis might have to play well to win, paris in 2 rnds isn't completely stopped but it could be costly, as lille is harder to take and would have an extra inf to counter (inf moved out of lille and bunker added)
5 russian territories in the back have been upped from 1 to 2 ipc's as well as 2 british territories
25 usa bid
this can only be downloaded 10 times, so if someone could repost if they have unlimited acct
here it is again with Low Luck already checked for you
So is there somewhere that describes what all the pieces do. For instance, I have no idea what the bunkers do in France at the beginning. I looked through the download for something but only found basic stuff.
its all in the game notes.click help-->game notes
there are the unit definitions
I'm not able to open NWO on my mac. I downloaded the mac version from the website and copied the NWO xml files that I had on my pc into games folder on the mac but it still doesn't work. Any suggestions on how to get it to work?
In reply to this post by Guerrilla_J
All below reflects my personal opinion, so even if it looks like speaking in absolutes, its not. Just stating that to keep the jumpy ones in their seats...
Craftsmanship left aside, the 2 main factors impacting the success of a map are:
2. Variety (number of possible openings)
While the first is a must, the second keeps the game from quickly becoming repetitive over the early rounds.
In opposition to many 1.x versions of NWO brought out during the panic about G2 Paris, Guerrilla_J's version attempts to fix balance WITHOUT restricting the second. G2 Paris is still possible, although even more expensive. And and a US bid of 25 is going just to the limit of what is possible WITHOUT leaving the German subs only one possible opening move (anything higher restricts the German subs from pooling in sz9, leaving them with little more choices then choosing which allied stacks to be burned against).
However, the extra Lille bunker and the French inf freed for a counter now has not only the effect of making G2 Paris more expensive, it also makes it risky. And that is something bad. Making a very expensive opening also risky only kills it. At least for decent players that don't intend to gamble and drop in case of failure.
I wont throw another version in here since I fear a lot of version's might be detrimental to NWO, which is a shame. Instead I will post my proposals here in order to be considered by community and sieg. I base them on the versions still most popular, the original 1.4 and inofficial 1.5 implementing the Leningrad bunkers, US 20 bid etc.
1. Give UK an extra T-boat in sz30.
The effect of this is that the main German fleet is put at risk of annihilation by the UK air force, if moved to sz29 (even with an added finish sub). So Germany has the choice of sending 2 trannies on a suicidal run to take Lille OR risk its fleet OR lose Finland (if it decides to leave the Russian Baltic fleet alone and move its complete fleet into the Chanel). The choice of suiciding the transports also makes Lille slightly more costly (no coastal BB bombardment), WITHOUT putting a proper G2 Paris at the risk of failure. Still, less units in Lille make G2 Paris even more painful and expensive for the axis (french counter on Lille, russian cleaning Lille by air - ouch!).
To maintain the old fleet balance, germany could be compensated by receiving a german t-boat in sz26 or sz20. T-boats are chosen obviously for the limited impact they should have on previous game balance due to their restricted movement.
2. Scouts. While I love the concept of an aggressive unit which is weak on defense, I think it has a little flaw. Ever entered 5 scouts vs 3 tanks (both cost 15 IPC) into the battlecalc? While the scouts attacking the tanks win the battle as easily as expected (84% win with 2.4 units left), the tanks attacking the scouts pretty much mess up (55%, 1 unit left). This gets worse once the scouts are mixed with other units. Try attacking 10 inf 10 scouts (50IPC), then attack 10 inf 6 arm (50 IPC) with the same attacking force (10 inf 8 arm for example). The scouts score better ON DEFENSE! While on attack, they rule anyways - as expected. This makes tanks to scouts what big armor is to tanks: obsolete as long as there is enough production capacity. No big news for most of the community anymore. The effect is that huge scout armies roam the eastfront, supplemented only by a few tanks from the start of the game - at least this applies to games where players got their facts straight. And this seems a little odd looking to me. So probably not popular, I would still like to propose to change the scout to a price of 2 scouts for 7 IPC (3.5 IPC per scout).
Thats been it.
This post was updated on .
+NEW WORLD ORDER+
1. +1 Submarine and Transport in sz30 for UK
2. +1 Bunker in Leningrad
3. Colonial French gets + 3ipc, +1 Transport in sz59
I Know That there are some other versions of this map, they are up to 1.9(!?!)
till now but they are inofficial and moded by third Person, so this is my
Official 1.5 Version Of +NEW WORLD ORDER+.
Please be so kind Whoever create mods or development on this map name it
*NEW WORLD ORDER*1.5.X so its clear for everyone Thx.
Quick question, why do B29 and Lancaster's have 2 bomb symbols with their icons?
is there any consideration of an updated version of New World Order implementing the new AA50 rules?
Here the unofficial NWO 1.10 (....), which will be named 1.5.krusty-EB in the following, since sieg requested this in his last post - and it makes quite some sense.
It is based on the enormously successful unofficial 1.5 version and adds a minimalistic tweak to make G2 Paris even more expensive for Germany, while keeping it a realistic option. Further, it implements the change of 3 units, as has been called for by (part) of the community.
In detail: (CHANGE//EFFECT)
1. Added UK T.Boat in sz30 // Germany doing G2 Paris now has to either put its fleet at risk, move its COMPLETE fleet there (thus abandoning Finland) or sacrifice its 2 trannies for taking Lille. Effectively added costs are considerable. T-boat is chosen for its minimal effect on the previous fleet balance.
2. Germany received a T.Boat in sz26 // Compensation for the UK T.boat in sz30 in order to keep the former fleet balance.
3. Scout price raised to 3.5 IPC (2 for 7 IPC). // Spamming of scouts has been criticized for not following the Axis and Allies spirit. Scouts as they are now have virtually no weakness, since even in defense they (nearly) match tanks thx to the xtra hits they provide at the comparable costs. With the scouts costs slightly raised, Elite might be seen a little more often on the battlefield too...
4. 4 xtra inf for Russia in Kuibyshev. // This is to keep the very effective Russian scout openings intact. The 4 inf (8IPC) compensate for the additional costs of 16 scouts, so that Russia actually can play the same scout tactics as before during the opening phase.
5. Trucks defense has been raised to 3 (2). // The Truck has been a unit rarely seen on the battlefield. While raising defensive values might result in stalling the game, I felt that this change still should be tolerable.
6. BigArmor costs raised to 8 (7). Defense raised to 4 (3). // In most NWO games, huge airforces provide flexible and quick extra defense where needed.
With the truck and the BigArmor changed, there exists a land based alternative now. Less flexible and without a threat towards naval units, but with more punch (BigArmor) or cheaper (Trucks) then planes.
The slightly raised price for the scout makes it a little less of the ultimate unit (it is still awesome!). This should make some underused units like the elite (and artillery and tanks) a little more attractive again.
Altogether, this - I hope - provides for opening up alternative playing styles.
Critics and other comments are welcome. Would be most happy to see some of the changes making it into the next OFFICIAL version.
I noticed that a majority of the NWO veterans still loves to play the unofficial 1.5 version based on suggestions by krusty and implemented by corsair or even the good old NWO 1.4. The krusty/corsair versions major changes compared to 1.4 were an xtra tranny for UK in sz31, a US bid of 20 IPC, 2 Leningrad bunkers for russia and 2 xtra inf for the colonials in north Africa. On the axis side, Romania received 4 xtra starting IPC.
Although it may not make too much of a difference, Metz, on this map would be the equivalent to the Maginot Line. So historically, it should have maybe 5 bunkers. This could in turn slow the early Paris capture, or at least divert more troops toward it.
Right u are! And on top of that, too historical setups would narrow the options for different openings, reducing the replay value of a map. The historical setup should be the basis for a good A&A map, not its ultimate goal. Just my 2 cents again, of course.
Btw, I received feedback that the Trucks work fine so far as do the Scouts. Also the changed Big Armor was not mentioned to have been abused. In fact, I even think raising its cost to 8 for a mere +1 defense might have been too much.
Try out 1.10 (1.5.krusty-EB) yourself! ;)
In reply to this post by OnanTheBrBr
here is a new version of NWO based on 1.5 with several changes.
there are 2 new units- light armour (2/2/2/4) and escort carrier (1/2/2/11 One fighter)
scouts are now 1/1/3/3
bigarmour are now 4/4/2/7
Cruisers can transport one infantry,elite and or scout.
4 new LightArmour for Germany. 2 new infantry for France and 2 new infantry for Poland.
Reduced cost for S.Sub and Me262.
Limits to units available to purchase for France, Colonial France, Finland, and Romania.
i'm new to this so hope it works
I forgot to say in the prior post but since there are new units it's necessary to get the new NWO folder as well as the xml file
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