Map Zooming- Windows 10

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Map Zooming- Windows 10

agorjest
Hi,
I just installed TripleA and running a game of Big World 1942 on my new Windows 10 laptop, which has much higher available resolutions than my previous laptop. But on my new laptop TripleA will not let me zoom to anything over 100%, which makes it very hard to read the Big World map. I can still increase the unit sizes, but I can't zoom in to see the territories. I've tried decreasing from the maximum resolution to medium resolutions like 2000x1000 (approx., can't remember exact resolution). Is this a windows 10 issue? Any ideas would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Andy
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Re: Map Zooming- Windows 10

Frostion
I don't have an answer to your question, but I guess when you say medium resolution 2000x1000 you are taking about Full HD 1920x1080. If you have a resolution higher than that (4K?) then it would be a pretty high resolution, and the TripleA stuff/text/units would be pretty small and hard to see.

I can live with 1920x1080 on my 17, 5" screen, but with a smaller screen TripleA would be to unreadable.

I know it is wishful thinking, but it would be great if TripleA got a general zoom feature that would increase zom on everything at once, even text size.
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Re: Map Zooming- Windows 10

Zim Xero
In reply to this post by agorjest
As far as I know, this is the maximum zoom possible.  Discussions were held in the past on whether or not to allow more zoom and to allow larger unit sizes.  The results were discouraging to me personally.  It seems that many of the developers like everything the way it is because that is how they feel Triple A 'should' be played, and 'should' be viewed by the player.  It not only limits possible development, it leads to issues like yours.

I recommend setting up your Triple A to play at a lower resolution.
'thats the way it is' makes it neither desireable nor inevitable
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Re: Map Zooming- Windows 10

agorjest
Thanks for the responses. How would I set Triplea up to play at a lower resolution? Or do I have to lower the  laptops resolution each time I play Triplea?
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Re: Map Zooming- Windows 10

Cernel
In reply to this post by agorjest
Zoom is not really an answer anyway.

The games you play that allow you to zoom in, you are not really zooming, they are just set at a zoom lower than 100% default.

A true zoom over 100% almost always look bad, anyway; so, no point.

Most TA maps, as well as most possible 48x48 pixels units, will be obsolete when the 4k will be the standard, which should be soon.

Main things, in my opinion, would be having a better zoom (so that mapmakers can make maps meant normally to be kept at 50% or lower and look good) and well supporting units over 48x48 pixels (currently, 64x64 are already significantly cut, and 128x128 is not really playable). If these would be done, then having the possibility of setting a default zooming per map lower than 100% would be also cool. But, so far, no developers have been interested in such things.

Of course, even if done right now (which doesn't seem the case), maps taking advantage of this will slowly come out; so TripleA is destined to look crappy in the 4k age anyway.

As always, I would suggest mapmakers to do what they can to find a compromise for their maps, under the current limits, so that they might be at least still decent for the 4k, otherwise you just make a map that will be sort of obsolete in a few years from now...

For example, I always suggest to go at least for 64x64 pixels units, in any new maps (instead of the traditional 48x48). They are currently cut, but playable enough, and maybe they will be well supported at some point...

Generally, true zooms above 100% are bad even when they are good, and with the zoom quality of the current TripleA you would not want to zoom above 100% anyway, imo.
History plays dice
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Re: Map Zooming- Windows 10

Cernel
In reply to this post by agorjest
agorjest wrote
Or do I have to lower the  laptops resolution each time I play Triplea?
Yes.

I recall Veqryn expressed optimism about this being a good solution.
History plays dice
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Re: Map Zooming- Windows 10

redrum
Administrator
As Cernel mentions, zoom past 100% wouldn't be that useful due to pretty much all maps right now having 48x48 unit images. Unless many maps were upgraded to use something like 128x128 units, there probably isn't much that can be done. I'm not much of a graphics guy but if folks have good ideas on how to improve on what we have now I'm glad to consider them and potentially open feature requests to implement them.
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Re: Map Zooming- Windows 10

Frostion
I can't recall if this has been suggested before, but should it not be possible to make a general zoom setting that worked by the engine making new temporary versions of every file that uses x, y coordinates?

Like if a unit placement location or decoration picture was located at 10,10 in the grid system, then a zoom feature set to 200% would automatically generate a new set of files where this location would be altered to 20, 20. And all unit files, decorations, tiles, minimap and stuff would of course also be displayed as 200%. Of course also onscreen text would also be enlarged,  as well as the unit size info in the properties file.

One thing is the idea, another is if this is codeable. And I have no idea about that.
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Re: Map Zooming- Windows 10

Cernel
In reply to this post by redrum
Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

Making a map is a big work. Since a mapmaker wants his map to be playable, hard to imagine someone will possibly make a map with 128x128 units meant to be kept at 50% or lower zoom most of the times, as it would look awful with the current zoom and be basically unplayable with the current combat window etc..

Since it would be a big work, I don't think anyone is gona make a 128x128 experimental mapskin or whatever, either.

Whatever can be done to make the zoom better looking I think would be a major improvement, as I think that's currently the major limit, in the transitional phase.

I don't think it is possible to really improve on what we have now. Maps like WaW or NWO etc. are destined to become obsolete for the 4k, since anyway when you zoom images over 100%, even with a good zoom (which is not the case of TA anyway), they almost always look bad and blurred.

Those maps that currently use the 48x48 pixels units at 100% zoom might be barely playable for the 4k, but really only barely (try to play them at 50% zoom now). Those that use 48x48 pixels units at 66% zoom or lower will be definitively unplayable (try to play WaW at 50% zoom now!).

Eventually, things might move on, but very slowly. For what we have now, TripleA is inevitably destined to become a sort of outdated game, you have to manually nerf your resolution each time you wanna play it. I don't think there is a way around it, beside remaking all map skins bigger (I mean remaking them from scratch, not zooming out the current Tiles), which obviously is not a feasible option, as it would be a ridiculous amount of work noone is gona do it.
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Re: Map Zooming- Windows 10

Cernel
As I said, this is not helping, but I would just suggest mapmakers to go for 64x64 units at 100% zoom, in big territories, on any new maps, that are currently fairly playable, and should be good for the new resolutions too.

The only current limit is that you would need to zoom such a map a lot, on lower resolutions, which is bad just because the TA zoom is bad (if you zoom at 50% with a good zoom of a good graphic program, you have virtually no quality loss, really; the same cannot be said for the TA zoom).

Practically, if you have an image and zoom it at 50% with a good graphic program it looks still very good, but if you zoom it at 200%, instead, it looks bad, no matter how good your zoom is.
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Re: Map Zooming- Windows 10

aaalafayette
Administrator
In reply to this post by Frostion
There might be a way to set up the code to have a scaling factor. Likely it would be a lot of places to change, so would be difficult to get right. We also have problems with save games, and that may pose some more problems as we may need a coordinate translation layer.

Feature request logged at: https://github.com/triplea-game/triplea/issues/674
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Re: Map Zooming- Windows 10

Frostion
If work on this ever gets realized, then we must not forget the combat window and maybe other windows that displays units. They should somehow also be able to make more room to display units if a general zoom feature was developed.  I think that Cernel has a good point when saying that most people will soon (if not already) have high resolution screens. It would maybe lead to many first-time-TripleA-installer people to not even try to play the game - and eventually lead to decreasing TribleA player numbers :(