IMPORTANT TECH QUESTION - BLOCKCHAIN VS GITHUB - Y/N?

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IMPORTANT TECH QUESTION - BLOCKCHAIN VS GITHUB - Y/N?

captaincrunch
Hey, can I get all the tech experts on this forum here to educate me on just what Blockchain is? I just saw a segment on tv about it on that show called The Disruptors ... a business money stocks program. I also just now Googled info about Blockchain at this website;

http://www.ibm.com/blogs/think/2015/12/17/how-blockchain-will-transform-business-and-society/

SO MY QUESTION IS - is this the same type of function as Github? It sounds just like it to me but I don't really know this stuff ... although I'm a huge tech nerd in most other science related stuff but not really a computer guy.

Anyways, is Blockchain at all like Github and can anyone please tell me if this Blockchain thing is being overhyped or is it the real deal? I like to try to keep up on  trends if its even possible hehe. I hope to hear from Redrum or Veqryn or any of the big guns here please and thank-you :)
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Re: IMPORTANT TECH QUESTION - BLOCKCHAIN VS GITHUB - Y/N?

aaalafayette
Administrator
This quote in the article makes me think there is quite a bit of hype:
"Because of the open source rules, participants can trust that the technology will fulfill their needs and conform with industry standards–assuring interoperability between blockchain applications."

Open source really has no rules, and in no way can people "trust" a group of unpayed volunteers to make sure that their application is still functional and interoperable.

The two look a bit hard to compare. Blockchain seems like it's more of an OS layer technology. Much heavier weight than what we need.

This quote makes it sound like there is overlap between blockchain and github:
"Each participant has a copy of the ledger’s data, and additions or changes to the chain are propagated throughout the network—but only after the parties in the transaction agree on it."

Two points I would make though. Github is a version control system, while blockchain appears to be a transaction management system. So in blockchain, if all parties agree on a change, then the item is changed and does not seem like there is a way to recover previous changes. That is a huge loss when it comes to code, for code you *want* to know about all changes to the code. It's common for us to be looking through the code history to understand the evolution of that code, and very importantly to identify changes that may have introduced bugs.

My second point, we have enough trouble getting *one* person to review a list of code changes. Requiring everyone to sign off on code changes does not seem effective, nor necessary.

At the end of the day it strikes me as two different tools. Blockchain would potentially run code that you stored/developed in github and then deployed to a Blockchain "cluster".
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Re: IMPORTANT TECH QUESTION - BLOCKCHAIN VS GITHUB - Y/N?

captaincrunch
Thanks. My intuition tells me I should keep up on this. Its kinda like all the "cloud" talk that I'm not sure we should worry about or not.

A couple days ago I was channel flipping on tv and saw the show The Disruptors and they were plugging Blockchain and then I did a search and found that webpage about it. It looks like something we may hear about again.

FYI I am known for making known that I consider free trade, algorithmic trading, and analytics as all overated (I prefer the deductive over inductive). This Blockchain looks big and I wanted to know more about it and hopefully more people post in this thread about it so I can understand it even better.

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Re: IMPORTANT TECH QUESTION - BLOCKCHAIN VS GITHUB - Y/N?

ubernaut
i would tend to agree blockchain technology is specialized towards a transactional model of interaction not sure it has any application here.
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Re: IMPORTANT TECH QUESTION - BLOCKCHAIN VS GITHUB - Y/N?

captaincrunch
I didn't suggest it for this game, I just wondered if it was similar to GIT because it sounded like it. I just wanted to know what Blockchain is
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Re: IMPORTANT TECH QUESTION - BLOCKCHAIN VS GITHUB - Y/N?

ubernaut
gotcha :) i am no expert myself but my understanding is that the technologically its somewhat similar to peer to peer file sharing networks.
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Re: IMPORTANT TECH QUESTION - BLOCKCHAIN VS GITHUB - Y/N?

captaincrunch
This post was updated on .
so I just did a quick search now to see if others noticed how these 2 services sounded the same ...

my search results:

http://www.blackle.com/results/?cx=partner-pub-8993703457585266%3A4862972284&cof=FORID%3A10&ie=UTF-8&q=blockchain+versus+github&sa=+#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=blockchain%20versus%20github&gsc.page=1


and these links were interesting;


https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9436847

"Is Git a Block Chain?"


"jscottmiller 304 days ago:
"Blockchain" is generally used to refer to systems that either 1) use the sequence of blocks to model changes in custodianship or 2) (more generally) enforce a set of rules governing the correctness of a given block.

That is, a block in the bitcoin blockchain is valid not only if its hash matches what one would expect given the included transactions, but that those transactions adhere to the rules of bitcoin. (No double-spends, no dust transactions, etc).

While there are data structures in a git commit that must be present and/or follow a particular set of semantics, git does not enforce anything about the _contents_ of those commits.

Another key distinction: blockchains seek consensus, whereas divergent forks in git repos are by design.

EDIT: I should probably not distinguish too much between consensus and rule enforcement, as those two are obviously intertwined. :)"


"wmf 304 days ago:
Consensus seems like an essential property that distinguishes a blockchain from a Merkle tree, and git does not provide consensus."


"oleganza 303 days ago:
Bitcoin is like Git: in Git (a distributed version control system) all your changes are organized in a chain protected by cryptographic hashes. If you trust the latest hash, you can get all the previous information (or any part of it) from any source and still verify that it is what you expect. Similarly, in Bitcoin, all transactions are organized in a chain (the blockchain) and once validated, no matter where they are stored, you can always trust any piece of blockchain by checking a chain of hashes that link to a hash you already trust. This naturally enables distributed storage and easy integrity checks.

Bitcoin is unlike Git in a way that everyone strives to work on a single branch. In Git everyone may have several branches and fork and merge them all day long. In Bitcoin one cannot “merge” forks. Blockchain is a actually a tree of transaction histories, but there is always one biggest branch (which has the value) and some accidental mini-branches (no more than one-two blocks long) that have no value at all. In Git content matters (regardless of the branch), in Bitcoin consensus matters (regardless of the content)."




http://www.righto.com/2014/02/ascii-bernanke-wikileaks-photographs.html


"Hidden surprises in the Bitcoin blockchain and how they are stored: Nelson Mandela, Wikileaks, photos, and Python software "





Good stuff to know
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Re: IMPORTANT TECH QUESTION - BLOCKCHAIN VS GITHUB - Y/N?

captaincrunch
funny update:

I think it was the last link I gave on the interesting topic of Blockchain and how similar it is to Github (and also similar to Bitcoin) in its operation but anyways that last link mentioned a website that posts for fun the decrypted messages people send on Bitcoin and so sometimes when I'm bored I'll go check out the website called Cryptograffiti.com I think and so maybe 4 days ago (they posted another message yesterday) a company called Apertus made a message asking time travellors to contact them on Bitcoin and time stamp it before their message and so I laughed and a few days ago I went to Apertus's Facebook page and mocked them and they deleted my post 3 times. I asked what Kool-aid are they drinking and that you cannot build a time machine and even the suggested possibilities on shows I've seen that we can atleast travel to the future based on theory involving Time Dilation is a stretch (Time Dilation even occurs in mountains so it's relative and I know, I've learned, is just a healing effect from negative ions but whatever). Anyways, I said half these time travel stories are just abused people being messed with by nutbars in some bunker somewhere but I hadto mock this Apertus bunch
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Re: IMPORTANT TECH QUESTION - BLOCKCHAIN VS GITHUB - Y/N?

ubernaut
That's awesome, traveling to the future is in fact not only possible but a fact of the nature of our universe we are all going into the future at infinitesimally different rates. Not that any of this is practical for humans at least with todays technology. i think the problem arises when discussing the reverse of that which is necessarily a precedent of any messages left from future travelers.

Forgetting about what possible motive such travelers might have for just giving this technology or any hint at it to what would be relative savages to them and forgetting for a moment that these travelers would almost certainly have a more evolved sense of morals (or self preservation for that matter) which might prevent them from acting on the past, there is also the issue of casualty. Either we live in a universe where time is one singular dimension or we don't (my money is on that we don't) but either way nothing changes, you cannot alter the past the best you might be able to do is put yourself in a different past.

And if you like that, you'll probably get kick out of this as well:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superdeterminism

uber
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Re: IMPORTANT TECH QUESTION - BLOCKCHAIN VS GITHUB - Y/N?

captaincrunch
This post was updated on .
awesome reply!  

Rarely do I find such a knowledgeable post/intellect in my browsing but finally someone who has some grasp of our physical limitations.

I absolutely do believe in free-will and I absolutely do not believe in Superdeterminism and have already explained in that "Random Dice" thread that reality is completely unpredictable (such is the nature of reality and I believe in 1 meta-stable Universe divided by infinite dimensions) and only astrology nutbars would argue that it isn't.

The best I can stretch my allowance for the possibility of "time travel to the future" is something from history I discovered (you may already have heard of) was a device called the Urim and Thummim and it was a "redlight/greenlight" answer device where you'd ask it a question (it was supposedly a device from god) and you'd get either a yes (green) light or a no (red) light and, to me, this related a well known concept referred to as "the ghost in the machine" ... I will explain:


I explained this once on the internet before but I'll explain it again ... if you saw the movie Contact and did a little reading about the script, the author (Carl Sagan right?) designed his supposed "Time travel machine" on a principle known as "an Einstein/Rosen bridge" and I'll bet the look of the machine in the movie was speculation and perhaps we are no where close to actually building such a machine but I will hypothetically assume that humans are smart enough to know how to send astronauts orbitting our Earth at such a high speed that they are roughly "1 minute in the future" due to Time Dilation which occurs everywhere as you said and so it's relative ... imagine that the scientists on Earth are doing a huge dangerous particle collider experiment (they shouldn't be ... they should be doing this on the moon or off our planet) and let's say they are going to do it at 12 noon ...  

 as a "fail-safe", the astronauts speeding in orbit above our planet would be told that at around 11:59 am, if they see a big explosion or some disaster, that they are to signal before 12 noon a red light/relay emergency cut-off switch that lights up on Earth and shuts down the experiment ONE MINUTE BEFORE THE POTENTIAL BAD COLLIDER EXPERIMENT OCCURED and therefore the scientists on the ground would see the red light right before they did their experiment and the experiment would shut down and the Earth would be saved!

Yes, this is all hypothetical and it makes you think about the famous "ghost in the machine" idea where "something" caused the experiment to fail before it happened ... the only complication I have in my mind about this is whether the astronauts in space remember they pushed the red emergency button or not.

That is my best possible scenario for "time travel to the future" using Time Dilation principles.

Any other time travel stories/ideas that we end up reading about are usually by people drinking that crazy Kool-aid amiright
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Re: IMPORTANT TECH QUESTION - BLOCKCHAIN VS GITHUB - Y/N?

ubernaut
Well i don't think it works like that, see even though it maybe 11:59 in the space capsule which is getting to the future faster than Earth. On Earth, it is already and still noon. This concept of relativity is not intuitive to our non relativistic brains. I think it's sort of like understanding women (as a man), just when you think you really get it, you definitely don't. Ok maybe not as hard as women. ;)
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Re: IMPORTANT TECH QUESTION - BLOCKCHAIN VS GITHUB - Y/N?

captaincrunch
you could be correct, I just put forth the hypothetical situation for us to consider.

I do love the Time Dilation topic though.  A tough one to wrap our brains around but so immensely interesting eh. Hehehe, I feel like going back to that Apertus Facebook page and mocking them again for a 4th time since they keep deleting my post
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Re: IMPORTANT TECH QUESTION - BLOCKCHAIN VS GITHUB - Y/N?

ubernaut
Time dilation is indeed an interesting topic. i think some of the best pop culture work on the matter (both in terms of technical accuracy and in terms of watchability) was in in Stargate SG1 if you haven't seen the replicator episodes they definitely should be on your list. Regarding Apertus, unfortunately sometimes you can't change the future either but that doesn't mean you shouldn't try. :)
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Re: IMPORTANT TECH QUESTION - BLOCKCHAIN VS GITHUB - Y/N?

captaincrunch
I will watch for those episodes.

We do have the Heisenburg Uncertainty Principle which assures us we  cannot know both the velocity and the direction of a particle at the same time and I firmly stand behind it and I guess that Principle presupposes we cannot travel in time both forwards or backwards so those are our parameters  and Time Dilation is a good topic to discuss.

Funny, I had 2 calls to myself on my phone happen before and the 1st time it happened about a year and a half ago so I called my phone provider and the tech guy chuckled and I did a Google search and read it does happen to people from autodialers so that was weird but it can happen.

I still like the show Dr. Who but some people go a bit too far ya know
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Re: IMPORTANT TECH QUESTION - BLOCKCHAIN VS GITHUB - Y/N?

ubernaut
Heisenberg is certainly yet another interesting topic but i'm not sure you're 100% on target there with your assumptions there either. :) Quantum uncertainty is really best understood (by me at least) as sort of native resolution to the universe what it says is that you cannot know both the position and momentum (slightly different from velocity also encompassing the matter of mass) beyond a certain level of precision (often referred to as planck's constant). Modern quantum theory incorporates the notion that all real particles are surrounded by a foam of virtual particle/anti-particle pairs which is a sort of physical manifestation of uncertainty. More info here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_foam#Relation_to_other_theories

It is because of this that we now believe that black holes do eventually return their matter to our universe because these pairs can form on the boundary of an event horizon allowing one of the pair to escape an impart real mass from the black hole. The logical conclusion to this theory, if correct, is that basically anything can happen, any rule can broken as long as it remains confined below this basic 'resolution' including time travel in reverse direction. Anti-matter in general is also supposed by many to be matter which is simply going backwards in time but that seems a bit of a stretch to me personally.

i think The Doctor said it best of all perhaps in 'Blink':

"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but *actually* from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff."
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Re: IMPORTANT TECH QUESTION - BLOCKCHAIN VS GITHUB - Y/N?

captaincrunch
This post was updated on .
well ya Hawking Radiation showed that blackholes eventually collapse and they aren't as mysterious as some think. You didn't really show how time travel to the past is in anyways possible and we also have another principle known as the Arrow of Time;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_of_time

 that time is linear and restricts us from ever being able to time travel to the point where we break linear reality and also remember that we exist between both Newtonian particles and Quantum waves hence my confidence in a meta-stable universe.

Some people overvalue Quantum probabilities (like they overvalue Statistics) and, to me, its very geometric and I basically equate all "paradoxes" to just feedback and not some magical "Symmetry-Breaking or Singularity" machine you would actually need for real time travel ... it would be like being able to publish every number in pi (or any other irrational number) and that requires all the power of the universe to do so ... so the laws of physics do have purpose ;p
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Re: IMPORTANT TECH QUESTION - BLOCKCHAIN VS GITHUB - Y/N?

ubernaut
This post was updated on .
Well i am not personally convinced that reality is linear at all in fact i personally believe that there are least 2 dimensions to time, probably at least 3 and there are logical constructions out there for many more:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqeqW3g8N2Q

I think the point about quantum uncertainty is that you can't say anything about what happens below our ability to interact with it (and when i say "our ability" what i really mean is the the universes capacity for interaction not really anything to do with "us"). of course all of that is out the window with something like super determinism but that one is relatively new to me and sorta falls into the same bucket as the anthropic principle, it sure sounds nice and tidy but in my experience with the universe is that it's any but…
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Re: IMPORTANT TECH QUESTION - BLOCKCHAIN VS GITHUB - Y/N?

captaincrunch
we have the first 3 dimensions ofcourse, and time is the 4th dimension. You hear all the time there is atleast 4 dimensions and I've heard some speculate there could be 5 dimensions but thats all we can prove. Theoretically, I know there is an infinite amount of dimensions but, remember, there's ONLY ONE Universe. I don't believe in multi-verse theories at all and they never hold water and the support they get is unfortunately just a fad.
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Re: IMPORTANT TECH QUESTION - BLOCKCHAIN VS GITHUB - Y/N?

ubernaut
you should watch that video if you haven't already seen it. while it is far from being a true scientific theory it does lay out a fairly compelling argument for some of these notions that you reject. i do believe in the many worlds theory and i think if quantum mechanics is a law and not just a theory it must be true and everything that can happen does happen. But then again i believe in everything… :P
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Re: IMPORTANT TECH QUESTION - BLOCKCHAIN VS GITHUB - Y/N?

captaincrunch
ya but based on both the Uncertainty Principle and also that I discovered there is not only 1 but 2 basic forms of Induction equations ( Induction is the most basic form of math to reduce down mathematical truths and even then there is at least 2 forms). Since we find in Induction (related to the Reimann Zeta Function) that there is both an "even" equation and an "odd" equation ... or you could say there is both a "left handed" equation and "right handed" equation or you could say there is both a "convergent" equation  and "divergent" equation ... then we would haveto understand that it is pretty much understood that reality really is inbetween a particle and a wave and this is why there cannot be 1 equation as a "Theory of everything" and why you cannot assume physics obeys a strict Quantum aspect ... and this is the difference between laws and theories. I will watch that vid though
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