Greyhawk Wars

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Greyhawk Wars

panguitch
This post was updated on .




After 6.5 years of neglect, I've given Greyhawk a massive overhaul. Find the totally revised version here:

http://tripleadev.1671093.n2.nabble.com/Greyhawk-Wars-Re-envisioned-and-Relaunched-tp7587839.html





Original post follows:

I posted this last year on the tripleadev.org forums and I recently got some feedback on my blog about it.  I figured I'd post it here to see what others think.

Last summer I got the idea to try and create a TripleA version of an old wargame I love called Greyhawk Wars, based on the old Dungeons & Dragons campaign world.  Never done this before and the learning curve was a bear, but still fun.



I had to make a lot of compromises in adapting the original game to TripleA, but hope that it still evokes the old game and works for TripleA.  There are two versions: a 6-player 2-team standard version and a 10-player 5-team expanded version.

You can download the Greyhawk mod for TripleA here: http://www.mediafire.com/file/4nimyodzbhy/Greyhawk07.zip. Once you download it, unzip it. Copy the two .xml files into the Games folder in the main TripleA folder wherever you’ve installed TripleA. Copy the Greyhawk folder into the Maps folder in the main TripleA folder. When you run the game be sure to click on Help > Game Notes for the background info.



One thing I've never been able to resolve are some java errors that pop up when moving between a few certain territories--especially where impassable territories are involved. If anyone encounters this and knows how to fix it please let me know.

Other than that I'm interested in opinions on balance. Does the Scarlet Brotherhood have too many ships to start with? Are the dragons too cheesy?

Thanks for any feedback. Hope you enjoy!
-Andy

Greyhawk Wars
TripleA in the original Dungeons & Dragons world

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Re: Greyhawk Wars

siegepunk
Thanks for posting those maps. I'm testing the six player two team out right now.

I have a question though: for the expanded map (5 team 10 player), who is on each team? I don't see it listed in the game notes.

BTW, I don't think the Scarlet Brotherhood starts with too many ships nor do I think that the dragons are "cheesy."

Thanks again,
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Re: Greyhawk Wars

panguitch
Teams in extended version:

Western Alliance = Keoland and Furyondy
Eastern Alliance = Nyrond and Iron League
Mad King Alliance = Iuz and Great Kingdom
Scarlet Alliance = Scarlet Brotherhood and Pomarj
Raider Alliance = Zeif and Barbarians

Thanks for the feedback.  I hope you enjoy the map.

-Andy

Greyhawk Wars
TripleA in the original Dungeons & Dragons world

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Re: Greyhawk Wars

Margrave Rinstock
Thanks panguitch!

This is a Great Map.
  -His Sublime authority, Margrave Rinstock
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Re: Greyhawk Wars

JasonV
D&D + A&A = Awesome!

Great Greyhawk in Triple A!

As a longtime Greyhawk fan, I'll definitely have to check this one out too, so many game so little time.
--
"I cannot forecast to you the action of Russia. It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma" - Winston Churchill 1939
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Re: Greyhawk Wars

JasonV
Bowmen are showing up as 0/0/2 for 4 - not the best investment.

Now, I know that Iuz likes to spit and sputter about the ineffectiveness of his minions but this might take it a bit far ;)
--
"I cannot forecast to you the action of Russia. It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma" - Winston Churchill 1939
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Re: Greyhawk Wars

fbouthil
Bowmen are like artillery.

Artillery do not attack or defend, but they get a free shot on each plane that goes over their territory.

Bowmen do the same with dragons, or at least that is what the legend indicates in the lower left corner of the map.

That map looks great and I like it a lot. Lots of details, that is great.  

I did get an error at some point about not finding a route between Nyr Dyv and the Maure Wetlands.  Since that happened within the turn of an AI, that prevented me from continuing the game I was playing.

I also got a minor annoyance near a lake.  When going from a land territory to another land territory, it is supposed to favor a land route over a route going over water (i.e. the lake) of the same length, but that somehow does not always work on that map.  I had to move one territory on land, then go to the territory I wanted to attack.
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Re: Greyhawk Wars

fbouthil
Out of curiosity, I downloaded the latest version of the code (1.04 not an official release yet) to find out what was wrong with your map.  It seems there was a bug in the path finding algorithm and that was fixed because it can now find a path between Nyr Dyv and Maure Wetlands.

As a side note, it seems the latest version is now case-sensitive so you will have to rename the name of all your units.

Example: Orc.png instead of orc.png because the xml file refers to Orc, not orc.

I had to rename all those units to open your map.  With a batch file (.bat), that takes only a few minutes so it is not that bad.

The WeakAI does not work well on your map for many reasons, especially when it comes to transports.  I looked at the code and it will only transport units from the capital, so if the capital of a player controled by the WeakAI is not near water, it will never use them.   The WeakAI also assumes that the transports can only move 2 sea zones.  If anyone makes a game with sea units with only one move, I bet the WeakAI would cheat!!  It don't think it can blitz either.  Since all your land units have a move of 2 or 4, it seriously penalize them.

The Scarlet Brotherhood is unable to reinforce its oversea territories and it is quickly confined to the peninsula around its capital because its capital does not touch the sea.  There are very few surprise amphibian attacks when it should be commun considering the ships can move 6 sea zones.

Hopefully, the "Moore N.Able (A.I.)" will do better on your map.  I will test that since I really like your map.
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Re: Greyhawk Wars

fbouthil
This post was updated on .
The "Moore N.Able (A.I.)" is much better than the weak AI when fighting other players.

Still, there is place for improvement.  It concentrates its attacks on other players instead of neutral countries which is good since they are the real threat.  It rarely attacks on neutral territories, but when it does, it does not always use enough strength.

Here are my comments about that map and the scenarios:

1. Iuz and Furyondy start next to each other.  On every games where both of them are A.I. (weak or Moore N.Able), Iuz always lose its capital by turn 2 or 3.  Maybe Iuz should get some help, like giving him the ship on Whyestil lake.

2. Barbarians have white territories and that makes it hard to see the number of units that they have of each territories.  I suggest to change it to a slightly blueish white (color.Barbarians=bbdaff in map.properties)

3. Dragons (2x5/4/8) cost 12 IPC each.  Compared to other units in combat, the price seems correct.  On the other hand, they can bombard for 2 dices, so reducing the IPCs of an enemy by 7 (on average) every turn.  Even if all castles were defended by archers, that mean each dragon will reduce the IPCs of an enemy by an average of 38.5 (11 dices * 3.5, dying on the 6th attack) before they die.  In A&A, bombers cost 15 and reduce the cash of an enemy by an average of 17.5 before they get shot down.  Of course, heavy bombers still do an average of 38.5 before dying, like dragons, but the player had to invest possibly a lot of money in technology before getting them.  I am not sure how to fix this.  Maybe it should be a rule that players should not use dragons for bombing.

4. Did you know that air units cannot move over neutral territories in non-combat move?  I got a surprise when I discovered that after sending a dragon to bomb an enemy territory that I could not land.

5. Which options do you suggest we should use?  Clearly, setting the "Battleships repair at end of round" can change the game a lot.  Units with 2 hp would become much stronger and should cost much more.
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Re: Greyhawk Wars

fbouthil
I downloaded the latest version of triplea recently (1.3.2.2) and adapted that map to work with that version. Here it is:
greyhawkexpanded05.xml

It contains the following modifications:
- Corrected the name of the units (case sensitive now)
- Color of Barbarians

I might play with it a little to try to balance a few things like:
- Iuz, controled by any A.I., always lose quickly to Furyondy. Maybe give them more initial money or move the capital to a safer territory.
- Dragons are way too strong for their cost. Maybe increase the cost to around 20. I might play with the cost of a few other units too.
- Add some victory conditions. Maybe an alliance with control over 5 capitals or something like that.
- Add some objectives if I can figure out how to do that.
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Re: Greyhawk Wars

RogerCooper
I always find the idea of "building" dragons in fantasy games odd. Perhaps Dragons should be unbuildable by normal means.
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Re: Greyhawk Wars

erik542
In reply to this post by fbouthil
I have finally discovered the fundamental balance issue with the map. It is that evil goes first. Simply change the turn order to Furyondy, Luz, Nyrond, Great kingdom, Keoland, Scarlet Brotherhood. It stops the Molag stack, immediately naval dominance of scarlet, and the quick curl up of Nyrond.
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Re: Greyhawk Wars

kauai1964
In reply to this post by fbouthil
Is the 5 player expanded Greyhawk available anymore?