Edge of Armagedon 1914; Empires of Europe

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
68 messages Options
1234
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Edge of Armagedon 1914; Empires of Europe

hepster
New thread to introduce the development of a new WWI game concept.

The idea is to build and adapt on the previous works done within the Domination series while also drawing on concepts and ideas from an array of other games available on Triple A.

A quick over-view of the general outline...

-Map based on Domination that has been heavily modified to reflect the focus of a WWI era conflict.

-Completely re-envisioned Diplomacy system to better reflect the political climate in 1914 and add a dynamic new element to the game.

-New concepts in ocean travel.

-Revamping of the tech tree to alter some of the structure from NML while also drawing on a TWW model.

-Change to some of the unit functions and availability.

-Brand new concept to deal with the Russian Revolution.

-Secondary resource added to the game.


As this continues to develop I shall begin to outline much of this to get input from the community and ask for assistance when and where I need it.

More info to come.
“A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition”― Rudyard Kipling
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Edge of Armagedon 1914; Empires of Europe

hepster
Ok so here is a view of the new Europe and North Africa.




*Europe has been enlarged (actual size of the area) while the Northern coast of Africa has been reduced.

*More territories have been added to Europe.  

*Diplomatic control areas are also pictured.

*Diplomats already placed in a few Diplomatic Control Areas.  


* Some of the many Trade Route sea zones places across the worlds oceans and seas are also visible.


More to come.
“A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition”― Rudyard Kipling
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Edge of Armagedon 1914; Empires of Europe

alkexr
Hi,

Can I ask how you intend to name those territories in the middle of Austria-Hungary? I'm asking this because I'm from Hungary, and it's annoying to see e.g. that unexplained "Baranya" thing. Actually, it was nothing but a county which accounted for less than 2% of the territory of Hungary, and it was of no serious importance, but still it is one of the four (five) territories that make up Hungary. I understand gameplay reasons but I don't think they are valid arguments here. Based on its location, it should rather be named either "Vajdaság" or "Vojvodina" (with the former being its hungarian, the latter its serbian/internationally accepted name). I didn't want to bother people with it in the case of existing maps, but this is still in development phase, so I can offer my help in choosing names if you need it.

alkexr
Have you played any of my maps? Share your opinion!
Large Middle Earth
Russian Civil War
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Edge of Armagedon 1914; Empires of Europe

crazy_german
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by hepster
I tried to make a few mods of the domination map. Unfortunately, it inevitably seems to revolve around a few giant territories on the map (not in size, but in how they connect to other territories). It is good to someone split them up. Belarus and Burgundy are both huge offenders, and I think those splits you made would improve the map significantly.

Here are some thoughts on WW1 themed maps
-On Domination 1914 No Man's Land, the Central Powers really suffer from poorly placed factories. Their march to the front is much longer than the Entente's. Adding those extra territories to Hungary and Germany could exasperate this issue. The supply line problem is a huge problem in the official Axis and Allies series WW1 game and probably is the reason it isn't that popular.

-The Central Powers geography is somewhat poor. Only Germany borders France, only Austria borders Italy, and only the Ottomans share a border with the UK. This means the Centrals have a very difficult time coordinating strategy unless they attack Russia, which tends to result in a kill Russia first strategy being the only option.

-It is comparatively easy to play the Entente in many of these WW1 maps, as several powers can somewhat easily just run an autopilot ground war. France just builds land to fight Germany, Italy builds land to fight Austria, Serbia builds land to fight Austria. By contrast, Germany and Austria have a tough choice in how much to send to the different fronts. It also can be easy for the Entente to shut down Central Navies, since they can just build a new ship anytime the Centrals do.

I see these issues in the current WW1 maps, which are all playable and at least somewhat balanced but lack replay variety. I hope you find these considerations helpful
Correctly crazy, disingenuously German
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Edge of Armagedon 1914; Empires of Europe

hepster
In reply to this post by alkexr
Hi alkexr,  As an adopted Hungarian I am interested in making the names as accurate as possible.  So I shall draw on your suggestions when I am naming the different parts of Hungary.  I have always tried to make maps that have sensible names.  As a Canadian it always irks me when people mutilate the geography of our country.

Thanks for the input.
“A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition”― Rudyard Kipling
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Edge of Armagedon 1914; Empires of Europe

hepster
In reply to this post by crazy_german
crazy_german wrote
I tried to make a few mods of the domination map. Unfortunately, it inevitably seems to revolve around a few giant territories on the map (not in size, but in how they connect to other territories). It is good to someone split them up. Belarus and Burgundy are both huge offenders, and I think those splits you made would improve the map significantly.
Yes the Domination map (though well done originally) has some real limitations.  So the modifications I have done all over the map have been my best attempts to correct issues with either to large or small territories and to create movement parity all over the Globe.  In fact very little of the original Russia remains from Domination.  There again almost all of the worlds oceans have been pretty much entirely revamped.  I shall continue to post other segments of the map as I have time.
 
crazy_german wrote
Here are some thoughts on WW1 themed maps
-On Domination 1914 No Man's Land, the Central Powers really suffer from poorly placed factories. Their march to the front is much longer than the Entente's. Adding those extra territories to Hungary and Germany could exasperate this issue. The supply line problem is a huge problem in the official Axis and Allies series WW1 game and probably is the reason it isn't that popular.
Yes the Central powers have some real issues with production.  There are also major issues with how territories are valued.  Needless to say I am taking all things into consideration... but one thing is definitely true... this map will have a significant PU reduction and there will be no unrealistic goldmine territories that are worth 20 PU.  Additionally I am also looking at introducing trains... so again there will be options for both sides in terms of troop movement which will inherently help the Central powers more.

crazy_german wrote
-The Central Powers geography is somewhat poor. Only Germany borders France, only Austria borders Italy, and only the Ottomans share a border with the UK. This means the Centrals have a very difficult time coordinating strategy unless they attack Russia, which tends to result in a kill Russia first strategy being the only option.
The nature of the WWI conflict is such that most of what you say is true... and that regardless of what changes are made... the same will always be true.  Fortunately many of the ideas I am flirting with should provide for some variety of strategies.

crazy_german wrote
-It is comparatively easy to play the Entente in many of these WW1 maps, as several powers can somewhat easily just run an autopilot ground war. France just builds land to fight Germany, Italy builds land to fight Austria, Serbia builds land to fight Austria. By contrast, Germany and Austria have a tough choice in how much to send to the different fronts. It also can be easy for the Entente to shut down Central Navies, since they can just build a new ship anytime the Centrals do.
Again as I a able to bring more of my ideas to this thread you will start to get a better picture of how I will be attempting to create a historical game that shall allow for some real choices for both sides in determining what they choose to pursue.  One of the main things you will notice immediately is that Italy has Diplomatic Control Areas... meaning they do not start the game as a member of the Entente... so both sides will have to decide how badly they want Italy to either remain neutral or to join the war.  

crazy_german wrote
I see these issues in the current WW1 maps, which are all playable and at least somewhat balanced but lack replay variety. I hope you find these considerations helpful
I always appreciate input on game development.  So keep the observations coming.

Cheers Hepps
“A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition”― Rudyard Kipling
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Edge of Armagedon 1914; Empires of Europe

Frostion
In reply to this post by hepster
This looks nice! What is the red dot between Slesvig and Holstein? And why is there a “Diplomatic control area” symbol on both Jutland and Zealand (under the same government)? And finally, have you thought about a “sea-mine field” unit? Maybe a 0 move / 1. Defense unit? Maybe requirering a “minelayer” unit when placing.

Anyway … As a representative of Denmark, I would like to inform you about our place in WW1. We traded with both parts during the war, but still the national economy went downhill during the war.

Both the Germans and then Denmark laid many sea mines around Zealand in 1914, to prevent allied ships coming in from the north. German diplomatic pressure forced Denmark to help them with this.

Maybe you can somehow use this info when placing units in Denmark: Under our neutrality, we had a lot of drafted soldiers guarding Denmark. They were called “the security force”. At the peak, October 1914, we had approximately 55.000 soldiers:
40.000 on Zealand. Mostly infantry. A lot of artillery (Copenhagen was made into one big fortification). A lot of engineers (obviously). A few Hussars on horses.
15.000 in Jutland. Mostly infantry. A bit of artillery. A few Dragoons on horses.

And yes, we were army-technologically backward in 1914. We didn’t even have helmets in the army before 1923. But, our navy was more modern:
9 Subsmarines in 1914 (14 in 1918). 3 “Panzerships” (86 meters). 5 “Cruisers” (72 meters). A lot of smaller craft less than 40 meters.


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Edge of Armagedon 1914; Empires of Europe

alkexr
In reply to this post by hepster
Well, the way you divided Hungary into parts made me think for a while. The old territory is closest in location and shape to "Transdanubia" ("Dunántúl"), apart from that little tail connecting to Transylvania. For the new territory in the middle I have no better idea than to call it "Great Hungarian Plain", or rather by its shorter Hungarian name "Alföld", considering that we are speaking of territories resembling areas of at least one quarter of the country in size; although the Alföld is significantly larger than the territory. It could as well simply be "Central Hungary". For the one in the north my suggestion is "Felvidék", literally meaning Upland, usual translation is "Upper Hungary". Although there are significant differences between what these names mean and the territories, they wouldn't look silly; instead it would look like a map inspired by reality, which it is. If you intend to use a Hungarian name, use "Dunantul", "Alfold", "Felvidek", as Hungarian vowels are almost certainly not accepted in the game xml.
Have you played any of my maps? Share your opinion!
Large Middle Earth
Russian Civil War
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Edge of Armagedon 1914; Empires of Europe

The Red Baron
In reply to this post by hepster
Hello, I'm new to the forum, but I play PBEM with my friends and am very interested in modding and WWI. This is quite interesting, as I am also very interested in making a WWI mod for TripleA and already have a lot of flags, and unit pictures and art that I have made that might be a nice addition to a project like this (of course, since you're the master of graphics, you might want to make your own ;P). I have unique infantry, generals, and aircraft for many of the Great Powers. Would you like them? I can post them, and you may like some and not others, but they're yours for the asking (in the regular TripleA unit style).

Manfred von Richthofen
The Red Baron
"The aggressive spirit, the offensive, is the chief thing everywhere in war, and the air is no exception." - Manfred von Richthofen
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Edge of Armagedon 1914; Empires of Europe

hepster
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Frostion
Frostion wrote
This looks nice! What is the red dot between Slesvig and Holstein?
 

The red dot marks the  Kaiser Wilhelm Kanal (Kiel Canal).  So German naval units (or any other depending on who controls Holstein-Slesvig) may move immediately into the North Sea from the Baltic.


Frostion wrote
And why is there a “Diplomatic control area” symbol on both Jutland and Zealand (under the same government)?
All neutral countries will have a specific # of Diplomatic Control Areas.  I have developed these based on the importance of the countries to the war... their military strength (actual and potential)... strategic value of the territories... etc.

So...

Denmark has 3 DCAs.
Sweden... 4
Norway... 4
Italy... 6
United States... 6
Greece...3
Bulgaria...2
Romania...2
Mexico...4
Japan...4
China...6
Persia...3
Portugal...3
Netherlands...4

Plus some more of the South American countries which general have 2 or 3 each.

No neutral country on the map shall join the war until all of the DCA (for that country) are controlled by diplomats from one of the 2 opposing factions.  Once a side has taken control of all the DCA for that country... and held them for 1 complete round... the nation will join the war for that side.

The only other thing about this is that ONLY The United States and Italy shall remain independent after they join the war... they shall have their own turn in the game... all other neutrals will be absorbed by a pre-determined member of either side.  ie. Bulgaria will always become either German or Russian regardless of which nations diplomats hold the DCA for that side.  This has been done in an effort to limit the amount of can opener options that could become very prevalent later in the game as more and more neutrals are brought into the war.


Frostion wrote
 And finally, have you thought about a “sea-mine field” unit? Maybe a 0 move / 1. Defense unit? Maybe requirering a “minelayer” unit when placing.
Yes mines are most definitely going to be in the game in some fashion.  I have yet to work on the unit design yet as I have some very specific ideas about how I want them to work.  But right now they are a major part of how I want to change some of the naval part of the game.


Frostion wrote
Anyway … As a representative of Denmark, I would like to inform you about our place in WW1. We traded with both parts during the war, but still the national economy went downhill during the war.

Both the Germans and then Denmark laid many sea mines around Zealand in 1914, to prevent allied ships coming in from the north. German diplomatic pressure forced Denmark to help them with this.

Maybe you can somehow use this info when placing units in Denmark: Under our neutrality, we had a lot of drafted soldiers guarding Denmark. They were called “the security force”. At the peak, October 1914, we had approximately 55.000 soldiers:
40.000 on Zealand. Mostly infantry. A lot of artillery (Copenhagen was made into one big fortification). A lot of engineers (obviously). A few Hussars on horses.
15.000 in Jutland. Mostly infantry. A bit of artillery. A few Dragoons on horses.

And yes, we were army-technologically backward in 1914. We didn’t even have helmets in the army before 1923. But, our navy was more modern:
9 Subsmarines in 1914 (14 in 1918). 3 “Panzerships” (86 meters). 5 “Cruisers” (72 meters). A lot of smaller craft less than 40 meters.




All great information.  I appreciate the details of the data.  Thanks for the info.  I shall put it to good use.

“A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition”― Rudyard Kipling
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Edge of Armagedon 1914; Empires of Europe

hepster
In reply to this post by The Red Baron
The Red Baron wrote
Hello, I'm new to the forum, but I play PBEM with my friends and am very interested in modding and WWI. This is quite interesting, as I am also very interested in making a WWI mod for TripleA and already have a lot of flags, and unit pictures and art that I have made that might be a nice addition to a project like this (of course, since you're the master of graphics, you might want to make your own ;P). I have unique infantry, generals, and aircraft for many of the Great Powers. Would you like them? I can post them, and you may like some and not others, but they're yours for the asking (in the regular TripleA unit style).

Manfred von Richthofen
The Red Baron
Feel free to share what you want.  You can either post the images directly on the forum or package them as a file via a file share site and post the link.  Or if you prefer you can e-mail stuff to me directly.

All info and materials is good.

Thanks
“A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition”― Rudyard Kipling
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Edge of Armagedon 1914; Empires of Europe

hepster
In reply to this post by alkexr
alkexr wrote
Well, the way you divided Hungary into parts made me think for a while. The old territory is closest in location and shape to "Transdanubia" ("Dunántúl"), apart from that little tail connecting to Transylvania. For the new territory in the middle I have no better idea than to call it "Great Hungarian Plain", or rather by its shorter Hungarian name "Alföld", considering that we are speaking of territories resembling areas of at least one quarter of the country in size; although the Alföld is significantly larger than the territory. It could as well simply be "Central Hungary". For the one in the north my suggestion is "Felvidék", literally meaning Upland, usual translation is "Upper Hungary". Although there are significant differences between what these names mean and the territories, they wouldn't look silly; instead it would look like a map inspired by reality, which it is. If you intend to use a Hungarian name, use "Dunantul", "Alfold", "Felvidek", as Hungarian vowels are almost certainly not accepted in the game xml.
I am actually considering doing every nations territory names using the proper names in the originating countries language as a fresh new approach to map making.  (Since I essentially have to redo everything because of the heavy modifications made to the map itself).  

And yes in the XML the names will never have any of the language specific vowels in it.  On the map however they shall be present.  Since I will be making custom graphics for the territories.
“A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition”― Rudyard Kipling
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Edge of Armagedon 1914; Empires of Europe

hepster
Here's another little something to give you an idea of where this is heading...





Yes I have started in on the concept of flying Aces!
“A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition”― Rudyard Kipling
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Edge of Armagedon 1914; Empires of Europe

Cernel
In reply to this post by hepster
Aside from doing some massive triggering on purpose, you can have separate nations and no canopeners, in a legit way, by having mixed turns, like the Americans-Chinese one in v3. Look at Domination 1914-WtEAW. In the extreeme, it would be possible to configure the whole turn of a same side like the Americans-Chinese one; so that there will be no canopeners, nor some other gamey silly things air related, at all, in the whole game.
History plays dice
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Edge of Armagedon 1914; Empires of Europe

hepster
Had already done some work trying to incorporate all Entente and all Central powers together in one "side vs side" turn... problem is it removed the possibility of so many other options related to Diplomacy and other things we were trying to incorporate into a WWI concept.

The triggers are, at the end of the day, a necessary by-product of wanting the game to work as envisioned.  The work ends up being the work involved to get the desired effect.  Just wait until I start detailing some of the concepts related to the Russian Revolution and the National Prestige currency.

Not really quite sure what you mean by "gamey silly things air related".  Perhaps you could elaborate on what specifically you mean.
“A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition”― Rudyard Kipling
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Edge of Armagedon 1914; Empires of Europe

alkexr
In reply to this post by hepster
hepster wrote
I am actually considering doing every nations territory names using the proper names in the originating countries language as a fresh new approach to map making.  (Since I essentially have to redo everything because of the heavy modifications made to the map itself).  
Then I list all Hungary-related territory names in one place:
Carpathia in Hungarian is "Kárpátok" (the name of the mountain range)
Transylvania is "Erdély"
The former Baranya should become "Vajdaság"
The old Hungary-territory should be "Dunántúl"
The new territory in the center should be "Alföld"
The new one in the north should be "Felvidék"

The official language in Hungary was Hungarian since the Austro-Hungarian Compromise of 1867, but based on this reasoning Croatia should be named by its croatian name, as the official language of Croatia was Croatian according to the Hungaro-Croatian Compromise of 1868. Dalmatia, however, wasn't a part of Hungary, and therefore Croatia at the time; it belonged to the Austrian half.
Have you played any of my maps? Share your opinion!
Large Middle Earth
Russian Civil War
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Edge of Armagedon 1914; Empires of Europe

hepster
Cool.  thanks for the info.  I shall put it to good use.
“A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition”― Rudyard Kipling
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Edge of Armagedon 1914; Empires of Europe

RogerCooper
In reply to this post by hepster
The DCA's are going to be a problem with the AI. It is not going to understand sending diplomats.

It might be better to just have a costed diplomatic action giving a chance of gaining the area (WW2-Factions used that). Or simply randomize the politics.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Edge of Armagedon 1914; Empires of Europe

hepster
Not all that worried about what the AI can and can't do.  My primary concern has always been player vs player types games.  A human opponent has always trump'd an artificial one IMO.  Well over half the fun is knowing you are besting an opponent, a real live foe who is agonizing over a painful defeat. Whether or not the AI can handle what has been designed within the game is inconsequential to me.
“A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition”― Rudyard Kipling
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Edge of Armagedon 1914; Empires of Europe

The Red Baron
Have to agree. The AI is improving because of the hard work of Redrum and others. However, it certainly will never understand abstract concepts like these or RSOC railroads. Maybe there could be support for AI extensions that a map can include for such concepts. Perhaps one day

For now, I'm quite content with PvP
"The aggressive spirit, the offensive, is the chief thing everywhere in war, and the air is no exception." - Manfred von Richthofen
1234