Domination 1914: No Mans Land

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Re: Domination 1914: No Mans Land

Cernel
This is a basic pic; screenshot taken and cut and shrink with cubic to a third of original dimensions.

History plays dice
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Re: Domination 1914: No Mans Land

Cernel
In reply to this post by Imbaked
As to cheer the great come back of Imbaked, here they are a better bedoin and better flags for Arabia:









This is how the game would look like:



And this is the original image used for the Bedouin, with the artist's signature (credit):



Cheers!
History plays dice
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Re: Domination 1914: No Mans Land

Bevan
I do not like that there are so many neutrals in the map, the AI can get distracted and not fight a proper war.

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Re: Domination 1914: No Mans Land

wirkey
The AI can't fight a proper war at all. It was never meant to be 100% competitive. If you want a decent game, come to the lobby and play a real opponent.
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Re: Domination 1914: No Mans Land

redrum
Administrator
Yeah the AI tends to struggle with large map and neutrals. The pre-release AI is somewhat better but still not great.
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Re: Domination 1914: No Mans Land

Bevan
What is the point of neutrals in the map? In the case of stalemate, the Allies have the option of conquering them before attacking the enemy again?
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Re: Domination 1914: No Mans Land

Bevan
As Russia, it seems the dominant strategy is to let the Communists take over all ur land. This is to minimize the land you give to the Centrals. Commies and Centrals are just neutral, and i managed to give German land to the Commies.

This can be done easily as the Communist turn is just after Russia, so everytime i vacate a land, the Commies will move in.

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Re: Domination 1914: No Mans Land

Cernel
This may be a reason for not playing this map with AI...

You can't talk of "dominant strategies" while playing this map with AI, since I assure you the original mapmaker (Imbaked) never meant this map to be played by AI, and I can tell you he is an anti-AI guy.

Still, the AI report may still have a value, but I think you should redirect it to the AI development thread (with details and savegames), as being an AI fail to adapt to the map, as this map was never meant to be adapt for the AI.

Posting it here (the map's topic) won't do much, as noone is going to change this map to have the AI playing it better.

Side note, I've never played this map, but I think this map is recognised as being unbalanced in favour of Allies; I seem to remember people play it by putting some limits to what neutrals you can invade or something. Just join the lobby and catch some xp players of this one, to have some insight on balance or anything; the map is not very popular, but it is sometimes played at a good level.

http://tripleadev.1671093.n2.nabble.com/AI-Development-Discussion-tp7585227.html;cid=1462165697006-266
History plays dice
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Re: Domination 1914: No Mans Land

Bevan
@cernel

I do not see this a problem with the AI. Communists and Centrals are set to neutral, this is a map design flaw that they cannot attack each other. Neither can the Communists cross into Centrals land to fight the Allies.
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Re: Domination 1914: No Mans Land

Imbaked
Hey Bevan,

having commies and centrals powers neutral was done on purpose. They wernt officially allies and I cannot see the red army throwing itself into the german lines on the eastern front.

It was never intended to be played with AI, don't do it.

There was little thought given to neutrals. I basically just put a bunch of inf on them and thought people would leave them be. I was wrong, hence most make rules that America can only take over north America. The map favours the Entente powers by a pretty wide margin by skill players, unless Centrals get really good dice to start. Players have put in rules to limit entente gobbling neutrals and getting super rich, and some give Germany a sub for bid to eliminate luck from early naval battle.

Glad to see some people are still playing with my map making attempt. Anyone is free to continue my work as they see fit.

Cheers,
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Re: Domination 1914: No Mans Land

panzerman
hey baked, I think of you now everytime I tune in viceland, which took over my god damn H2 channel, hehe.  Anyway, I don't really play it anymore came up with a way to play it that is more balanced for the centrals.  No farming allowed either side.  Navalland puts some sea mines in, pretty cool but if you ever want to change it, let me know and I will toss you ideas if you want.  I know in the professional games of which I own and tested one, you have to let the Russian revolution occur to where the Russians stop attacking.  You know I was a pro at the quick win, gassing France, taking St. Pete or England but the good players can stop it and in the long run centrals are week.


On Wednesday, May 4, 2016 4:44 PM, Imbaked [via tripleadev] <[hidden email]> wrote:


Hey Bevan,

having commies and centrals powers neutral was done on purpose. They wernt officially allies and I cannot see the red army throwing itself into the german lines on the eastern front.

It was never intended to be played with AI, don't do it.

There was little thought given to neutrals. I basically just put a bunch of inf on them and thought people would leave them be. I was wrong, hence most make rules that America can only take over north America. The map favours the Entente powers by a pretty wide margin by skill players, unless Centrals get really good dice to start. Players have put in rules to limit entente gobbling neutrals and getting super rich, and some give Germany a sub for bid to eliminate luck from early naval battle.

Glad to see some people are still playing with my map making attempt. Anyone is free to continue my work as they see fit.

Cheers,


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Re: Domination 1914: No Mans Land

Navalland
In reply to this post by hepster
Wa are still waiting your Domination Map Hepster; i really wonder it.
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Re: Domination 1914: No Mans Land

Rand
Germany: Most complex country in the game. You can capture Paris and win the game in round 5 if your opponent isn't expert. But in normally you cannot take Paris. Don't rush to Paris. Britain is more big threat than France . Don't give up Pacific navy. Pacific navy is very useful against Britain and USA. USA cant  farming in pacific and can't support to russia easily. You should just hold westfront with cheap infantry mass. Hold North Navy and occupy Scandinavia and Holland and try to capture English Channel. You are going to win when you will capture English Channel. Then you must press to  Russia and still hold westfront with Stormtruppens. Invasion to Finland and Baltics continuous. Britain is your biggest enemy. Your Product power must always higher than UK. This is essential.

France: If Germany Doesn't rush to Paris, don't buy Bunker. That's waste money. Also never buy Gas (except for Switzerlad). Infantry spawn is best idea. Firsty you can try retake Champagne it depends on German strategy. No need to create navy but If Germany strogly press to sz 25. You should hold sz 25 ad You must buy a few ship. Buy 4 colonial per round. Sopport Mecca and Italy  with this troops. If Germany have very strong stack in Belgium. Ignore Belgium go to the south (alsace-Worttemburg). Attack to always South Germany. Don't capture Morocco and Spain.

Serbia:Just Inf spawn.

Austria: Kill Serbia quikly! You can take Greece in Round 5 if you have a good strategy .Rush to Serbia in round 1 and 2. Buy a factory to Galicia in round 2.Dont buy lots of bunker that s waste money. No need create navy. When you captured the capital of Serbia, you must still ignore Italy, you must kill Russia firstly. Attack to Odessa with Austrian and German troops at the same round. You will take Kiev in after round. Then you can take Belarus but need the German and Ottoman supports.

Italy: Don't buy gas,bunker and ship. Infantry spawn and few field gun would be better. Try to capture Aegean Sea. Ottoman Navy is more big threat than Austrian's navy.

Arabia: If Germany destroyed sz 73, you must kill troops of the Trucial coast, If Germany didnt destroy sz 73 go full force to Palestine than retreat to Mecca don't fight witg Bedouins. Wait the Britain And the France.

Ottoman: Capture the Mecca in round 3 with gases and cavalries. Than create a Factory in Paliestine and go Full force to Cairo. Cairo is one of the most critical city in the game. When you capture Cairo. Create a few tranny and attack to Russia. Dont support the Balkans.

Britain:Ignore Ottomans, you must attack to germany full force in 3 round. Create a factory to England, Greate 5 sub in London and create 2 ship in Canada, destroy German Navvy and Capture Germans Pacific Islands. You need farming especially Japan (but commonly banned). Formosa,Iceland, Mexico, baluchistan,azores and madeira are good targets. No attack to Scandinavia. Press to Germany. Then you must go slighly to Ottomans .blockade to aegean sea with italian and french navy will be better.

Russia: Hold Bratsk and Belarussia for a long time. Buy lots of conscript ad Infantry and a few fighter. No need create navy. Create a factory in Volgograd in round 2. Don t buy unnesessary bunker. Ignore Ottomans for a long time. Push to Germany and Austria. Try retake the Warsaw. Capture Scandinavia.

Communists: Capture the Koryak with a few gas. Buy some conscript, infantry and fighter. Capture all the nearby territories with conscripty in every round, And slighly go to the west.

USA: Create a factory in San Francisco in round 1. Go to the pacific with trannes if there is no German Navy. Then you can go simultaneously to Pacific and Spain. Create a few navy in Atlantic.
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Re: Domination 1914: No Mans Land

Navalland
In reply to this post by crazy_german
Incomes are inequality but this is sensible and there is no unbalance things (But accourding to me except Japan) but this situation compensate the strategic advantages of central and disadvantages of entente.

Central Advantages

-Russia is surrounded all of the central nations and normally doomed to lose or tend to lose eastern and western territories.
-Germany has great momentum. Can threat simultaneously 3 entente countries with fighter-cavalry spawn
-Gas is very useful units ( much more if focus working woman or mustard gas) and central can take strategic allies territories with them (Belarus, Cairo, Greece,Baluchistan etc...)

-Commies should always stack to Aldan, and take north eastern Russia and try to second stack to khabarovsk.That's not a very hard. Than commies will be able to rise from russian far eastern territories.

-Belarus stack isn't significant. You can take Kiev against this strategy with stack to odessa with german-austria troops, Also Germany, Turkey and commies can press to russia simultaneously, Russia can t make a huge stack to Belarus

-I always assert this German new Guinea's income should be 3. Game would be more balance I think. Game is over for Central if Germany lost pacific because there are too much income in the pacific, also german pacific navy can prevent usa aids which go to the Russia.

I think the game has balance  with some simple things;

-1 german sub bid
-No Japan
-No Merchant Marine
-German new Guinea rise to 3 from 2.
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Re: Domination 1914: No Mans Land

panzerman
commander the great war has it right by slitherine games except for there is no pacific plus the navy units a little off especially the navy base defense is crazy but other then that the land and planes, and tech are spot on


On Tuesday, November 1, 2016 8:15 AM, Navalland [via tripleadev] <[hidden email]> wrote:


Incomes are inequality but this is sensible and there is no unbalance things (But accourding to me except Japan) but this situation compensate the strategic advantages of central and disadvantages of entente.

Central Advantages

-Russia is surrounded all of the central nations and normally doomed to lose or tend to lose eastern and western territories.
-Germany has great momentum. Can threat simultaneously 3 entente countries with fighter-cavalry spawn
-Gas is very useful units ( much more if focus working woman or mustard gas) and central can take strategic allies territories with them (Belarus, Cairo, Greece,Baluchistan etc...)

-Commies should always stack to Aldan, and take north eastern Russia and try to second stack to khabarovsk.That's not a very hard. Than commies will be able to rise from russian far eastern territories.

-Belarus stack isn't significant. You can take Kiev against this strategy with stack to odessa with german-austria troops, Also Germany, Turkey and commies can press to russia simultaneously, Russia can t make a huge stack to Belarus

-I always assert this German new Guinea's income should be 3. Game would be more balance I think. Game is over for Central if Germany lost pacific because there are too much income in the pacific, also german pacific navy can prevent usa aids which go to the Russia.

I think the game has balance  with some simple things;

-1 german sub bid
-No Japan
-No Merchant Marine
-German new Guinea rise to 3 from 2.


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NAML


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Re: Domination 1914: No Mans Land

crazy_german
In reply to this post by Navalland
I agree German New Guinea to 3 would be a good change. Right now the Centrals need extremely good early tech roles (working women), they need the Entente to get bad rolls (USA merchant marine is broken) and they need good rolls in early sub battles, and then if the Entente makes a few mistakes they have a chance (Cairo can and should hold for a very long time)

However, I don't think this map can be balanced. I played what I thought were several very close games, only to realize how doomed the Centrals were when they took Paris. I use so many people building tons of gas and cavalry, and yes you can take some territory but you spent so much money on dead units. The german position in the atlantic is just so bad, and its due to how the territories are drawn.

Taking all of Mecca, Greece, Paris and St. Petersburg doesn't even mean a central win, the only way you win is if the Entente plays really sloppy, if they study the board and make very strong plays its just not possible (even if you ban USA from capturing Japan). They more I played the more really strong Entente plays I found, for instance an Italian Zeppelin turn 1 is brutal, it forces Austria to be bombed all game or to build tons of AA guns. You also want to calc ahead a few turns, if you can hold a specific territory by shipping in friendly troops (Greece is a great example) do it, if your opponent built gas to take it but can't you probably won.
Correctly crazy, disingenuously German
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Re: Domination 1914: No Mans Land

Navalland
If britain starts cruisers instead of battlecruisers germany have more change to sink brit navy in round 1. It shold be i think. Rushing paris strategy is very bad because in normally central cannot take paris in round 5 even round 7. I am always satisfied to rush to paris strategy if i am entente. Weak uk and weak russia is the key of victory (weak uk is more important) italy and france insugnificant.  Because naval power is always important than land power otherwise central cannot prevent brit farming also britain have %50 change to take mexico city maybe it should be change.
With this small things i thing game is well balanced. Germany shols press to uk and slighly go to russia over scandinavia 8 stormtruppen would be excellent austria shold try to stack odessa and capturing kiev turkey must take mecca in round 3 and rush to cairo. These are just my opinions
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Re: Domination 1914: No Mans Land

lordbevan
This post was updated on .
Its agreed that Entete should not be able to attack neutrals because that is too big advantage. So this map need to remove the neutrals territories income. You can keep them to be of geographic importance. e.g. Iceland will be worth 0PU but if captured can land fighters which can hunt down subs.

Japan, Portugal, Brazil did join the war, so their territories could be left untouched to be captured. But their income needs to be tweaked down.

Any replays of this map would be great since i only play against the AI.

Also, gas is just too strong and the only counter is trenches. It should have at the most 2 movement.
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Re: Domination 1914: No Mans Land

Navalland
This game was designed according to Entente farming because this feature compensation huge Central advantages. ( Russia is doomed to lose, Momentum and rush advances, coordination advances, ) Game would be very unbalance and favour central and too predicable. Also without farming USA would be pretty useless.

That's weird Lots of person think entente has huge advantage that's definitely false. Central players usually ignore naval and mobile units and like spawn slow units and trenches and sacrifince pacific colonies. Thats very bad tactic.   This game is very close to balance. Just German new guinea should be 3.But I am undecided abot this idea because it might be unbalance. Also Maybe Germany should start with Bulgaria and Bulgarian factory. And Germany can support the Ottoman Empire This mean more strategic option.
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Re: Domination 1914: No Mans Land

lordbevan
In reply to this post by Rand
Germany: Too complicated

France:You need Industry tech or build 2 factories (one after another). Alternatively, use your factories in Africa and transport them to the mainland. This will however tie up your navy.

I prefer to use the navy to hunt down subs in the Atlantic or attack some German colonies in West Africa. This will free up British troops to move down to more important areas. If done correctly, America does not need to build navy until much later.

Serbia: You need Propaganda tech most as it gives 3 infantry. (even after your capital has fallen :)).

Austria: -----------------------------

Italy: ----------------------------------

Arabia: -----------------------------

Otto: Keep bombing Arabia since they cannot buy AA. You can ignore the Russian navy in the black sea as it has no transports. Use the navy to move troops faster as you suffer from a lack of factory. Your main factory, Constantinople is too far from Arabia.

Britain: You need Industry tech to produce enough units to retake Belgium. Until then, just focus on Africa and Asia. If your allies use their navies correctly (including suicide), you may not have to build a single warship for the whole game. If there is a need to build a warship, it should be British so that you have unified command and attack as a stack.

Russia: You need Industry tech to fight Communists as your main factories are too far away. Until then, you need a factory near Caucasus.

Communists: -----------------------------------

USA: You do not need to build a single warship if your allies are doing it right.
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