Chess

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Chess

Veqryn
Administrator
Well I had originally wanted to do Risk, but its just such a big project that I've been putting it off and off.  
Too many rules to think about, not even sure where to start, etc etc.

So, I thought, I'll try something easier.

I probably should have picked checkers, but whatever.


Anyway, I figured getting Chess to work in triplea (complete with all chess rules, and maybe a random-move ai) would be a good start to learning how TripleA handles games and the user interface.

So, with a little bit of copy and paste (stolen from the existing "King's Table" game), and 3 hours of staring at it, I now have Chess in a presentable form:




Mind you, you can't even play it yet.  Its just the board and XML at this point.  
Have to do the user interaction part, and the validating of moves, checking for mate and checkmate, etc etc, next.



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Re: Chess

Penguins
Veq,

How about trying to make Risk style connecting sea zones for existing aaa games to help with the AI and to make the games playable without ships. I will balance them out units wise and IPC wise.

Just let me know. I have been working on unit balance since the 1940 Europe Map was tweaked.  
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Re: Chess

hepster
Penguins this is already possible.

You can eliminate any or all S.Z. in any game you want and add direct connections between whatever land territories you want.  There is nothing to be done from an engine stand-point.  
“A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition”― Rudyard Kipling
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Re: Chess

RogerCooper
In reply to this post by Veqryn
Why do chess? So there are so many chess programs out there. Zillions of Games does deterministic, alternate-movement games so definitively as to leave no room for improvement.

There are plenty of ways you could evolve TripleA. For example, you could try to support the move/combat system of Fortress: America (the cards would be harder).
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Re: Chess

Zim Xero
I agree that a crappy Chess game will probably result.  But... the secondary benefits might suprise us.  Besides, who's to tell Veqryn he cant take a break and do something he wants for a while.
'thats the way it is' makes it neither desireable nor inevitable
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Re: Chess

Yugoslav
In reply to this post by Veqryn
I agree, there are already many free online chess games out there....

Unless this map is used for testing some new feature or something, I really don't see a point for this map.

If you want to make this, we're not going to stop you, but this effort could be put into a very good Risk game....
“Some men see things as they are and say, why; I dream things that never were and say, why not.” -Robert Kennedy
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Re: Chess

hepster
Personally I don't see why anyone would have an issue with this.

Firstly, I sincerely believe Veq. has the right to develop whatever he wants.  After putting so much effort towards developing the engine for A&A games, I'd think a slight break from the same 'ol same 'ol might help to clear the cob webs.  Besides which the creative process is anything but linear.  So who knows what other potential engine features might come out of this endeavor.  Sometimes inspiration comes from the unlikeliest places.

Some of the basic concepts from chess could provide some neat features that might be useable in other games with square territories or potentially hex.  So far many of the features developed have been taken in directions not originally intended when created.  So pursuing this could lead to some very unique engine features useable within other games.  Could lead to some interesting new game concepts.

Furthermore even if there are other chess games out there, how could having a chess game for Triple A diminish the engine or lobby at all?  People will play anything that is available.  We already have some doozies on Triple A and they get played.  Besides if he can do what he has done for things like Global, my instincts tell me that whatever he creates would be well done.
“A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition”― Rudyard Kipling
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Re: Chess

Veqryn
Administrator
Well, it is little known, but TripleA actually already has the ability to play "normal" boardgames.  Someone, long ago, coded 3 rather silly games into triplea:
Tic Tac Toe
Sliding Tiles
King's Table

You can find those 3 maps in the "unclassified" folder in your triplea install folder
Just take the examples folder, move it up 1 level, and you can play these 3 games.

TripleA actually is mostly just a framework for playing a game.  It is a game engine, which already includes all the stuff needed to be able to play online, etc etc.

The interesting thing about having these games, is that it forces the triplea engine code to be abstracted into classes that can be used for "all" games, and extended classes specific to a type of game.

This actually benefits triplea, by keeping code clean, simple, and object oriented.

In making Chess, I've been forced to abstract and clean up a number of classes, and in the process ended up fixing 2 bugs (real small ones), not to mention making everything easier to read, more reliable, etc etc.



Another side benefit, is that it helps us to be immune from any accusations that we are simply a "clone" of so-and-so's boardgame.


Don't worry, I'll get back to more "normal" triplea improvements very shortly.  This is mostly just a weekend experiment for me.
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Re: Chess

Veqryn
Administrator
In reply to this post by Veqryn
Well, it may not be of interest to many, but it is done!  :)

Complete with 2 ai's, a purely random one, and one that will take any capture and defend against captures, but is otherwise still completely random (it did beat my wife though, and gave me a run for my money [neither of us have played chess more than once or twice previously])

It also, thankfully, shows all legal moves every time you click on a piece.

The best part is I managed to abstract the engine to such a degree that I could probably code Checkers, or Go, or any other (simple) grid-based board game, within 2 hours.

anyway, if any of you want to try it out, i can walk you through compiling the source from svn,

thx,
veqryn
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Re: Chess

eurofabio
I tried to find this new map chess but I could not.

Do I have to do something different from the usual "choose game..."?


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Re: Chess

Veqryn
Administrator
update your svn again
then try
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Re: Chess

Veqryn
Administrator
In reply to this post by Veqryn
Just for shits and giggles, I decided to make Checkers too.

Actually Checkers was just as hard as chess to make, because "simple" for humans, does not mean "simple" for computers.  Specifically it was the rules that you have to finish a sequence, and that you must take a jump if offered, that took a while to solve.  Then there was my misunderstanding of the rules where I thought you could jump your own pieces too (never played checkers before to be honest).

Anyway, its all done too.  




only other games i can think of that might be worthy of doing on triplea are Go and maybe Backgammon
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Re: Chess

beelee
Go and backgammon sound good to me          The more options the more potential players

Could one have a separate sub forum for these more traditional games?    
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Re: Chess

HuskerMike
I don't see a reason to do Risk. It has already been done. Lux does for Risk what TripleA does for, ahem, that other game. Lux is commercial. But, like TripleA, the maps are user made and there are hundreds. And, you make Lux maps in a similiar fashion as TripleA maps.

One feature lux has that I would like to see in TripleA:

One way paths, i.e., you can go from A to B, but not from B to A.

This could make for some interesting situations, such as Hitler's No Retreat directive on the Eastern Front or an invulnerable Ho Chi Minh trail in Vietnam. Of course, in the first case it would have to be nationality specific.
Go Big Red!
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Re: Chess

eurofabio
Risk also could bring cards. And different objectives for players.

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Re: Chess

Veqryn
Administrator
In reply to this post by Veqryn
and Go,

which will be my last of the 'normal classical' boardgames

probably half or 2/3rds finished, depending on how far I want to go with it




oh and another side benefit:
in order to get go to work, i had to actually mess with the game parser and game map data sections,
and i saw that it would be possible to implement one way territories
so i plan to make that my next project
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Re: Chess

eurofabio
I was going to ask for a stratego game, but the main problem is that in your turn you don't have all information about the enemy pieces. In fact you just know where they are, but not what they are.
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Re: Chess

VictorInThePacific
In reply to this post by Veqryn
Well now, that looks like it might actually be a real game. You probably want to add the big dots in the marked locations.

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Re: Chess

VictorInThePacific
How do you intend to code go? There are no movements, there is no combat, pieces disappear, and the scoring system is critical. Ko requires special treatment. Good luck with the AI, though.
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Re: Chess

Veqryn
Administrator
i have no plan for any AI

all these boardgames were meant to be played vs humans, including normal A&A


as far as the code, it already works

feel free to test it out using the SVN
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