Blitzkrieg published 1965, 1975 by Avalon Hill Company

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Blitzkrieg published 1965, 1975 by Avalon Hill Company

HardThunder
Blitzkrieg published 1965, 1975 by Avalon Hill Company.  Blitzkrieg Module System published 1969 by SPI, Inc.  
Blitzkrieg 1965 Game Design: Lawrence Pinsky  
Blitzkrieg 1975 Game Design: David Roberts  
Blitzkrieg Module System Design: James F.                  Dunnigan and Redmond Simonsen  
ADC2 published by HPS Simulations  (http://www.hpssims.com/)  
Module Creators: Charles McLellan and Daniel  Davis

Yes I am 60. Yes I am old, Yes I have seen a lot. Now to the topic.

I have always liked this system, and have always liked the game. Even more so after SPI came out with the mods for it.

Right after I found TripleA on sourceforge.net and started playing with it , I had the idea it should have This game as part of it.

The base rules are simple. You start off with basic Infantry and Armor
It has a bunch of add ons (Even swimming tanks). I can post all the data, and would love to work with someone on this project.

imagebam.com imagebam.com imagebam.com 

We could add islands, and a host of other things (exspand water areas).
I don't hate you, just the person that plays you in the real world
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Re: Blitzkrieg published 1965, 1975 by Avalon Hill Company

crazy_german
What is the substitutes column on the bottom part of the map image?

My first thought is that it looks fairly easy to implement, depending on what the combat system is. You might need to to need to simplify/adapt to a large extent.
Correctly crazy, disingenuously German
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Re: Blitzkrieg published 1965, 1975 by Avalon Hill Company

HardThunder
Unit break down. You can take a 6-6 armor unit and make it two 3-6 units. A 4-4 can break down into 4 1-4 units.

The thing I like about having the factors on the unit is all you have to do is look and you see everything about the unit, you don't have to think "Oh that's an SS Armor so it is a * point attack 6 defence and moves seven"

What I like about this game is they turned it into a game system. So you can just keep adding on to it as Dunnigan and Redmond Simonsen did. You can also see Dunnigans thinking in later games. IMOPO it looks very much like they system the Germans used in WW--2 and later. Units can start off as small units and grow into larger units etc. It would also provide a base line for others to do a great many mods.

Being so basic it should not be a huge undertaking but I am still working out how to do maps.
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Re: Blitzkrieg published 1965, 1975 by Avalon Hill Company

hepster
No it would not be unachievable.  Just a lot of setup in an xml and drawing new unit icons.  But the premise is intriguing indeed.
“A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition”― Rudyard Kipling
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Re: Blitzkrieg published 1965, 1975 by Avalon Hill Company

crazy_german
In reply to this post by HardThunder
Like Hepps said, you wouldn't be able to practically have that many unit icons present, you would probably need to condense. Rather than having a 4-4 you would have 4 1-4's for example

You also want to figure out if the combat system will translate well, TripleA has some flexibility but you can't really change the core combat routine
Correctly crazy, disingenuously German
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Re: Blitzkrieg published 1965, 1975 by Avalon Hill Company

HardThunder
In reply to this post by hepster
hepster wrote
No it would not be unachievable.  Just a lot of setup in an xml and drawing new unit icons.  But the premise is intriguing indeed.
crazy_german wrote
Like Hepps said, you wouldn't be able to practically have that many unit icons present, you would probably need to condense. Rather than having a 4-4 you would have 4 1-4's for example

You also want to figure out if the combat system will translate well, TripleA has some flexibility but you can't really change the core combat routine
The xml setup, and New icons is not a grave issue for me. In fact I would be more then happy to make two sets of icons. Ones with the Nato and one with the System outline/silhouette. In fact a page is still up that Helps you do that.
http://zho.berka.com/rules/war/unit_counter.html
imagebam.com
http://zho.berka.com/rules/war/tank_counter.html
imagebam.com

http://zho.berka.com/goodies/hex/

http://zho.berka.com/rules/war/ship_counter.shtml

http://zho.berka.com/rules/war/misc_space_counter.html
imagebam.com

The base Game just had a few unit types with only one rating (level/step) for each one. I have no issue with that. In fact anything more I/we how ever could work out later. I do not see any issue with having unit levels , other then it would slow down play, and take more time to script with the added lines, in fact from looking it does not seem that hard to come up with a script to move units to special factories to combine them. But that would be for later, now just making the basic map, game would be, and is my aim.

My view is that the Major Nation fall after three turn of Capital occupation (minors just one) victory would be something like 3/5th of the minors and one major nations or some combination like that (maybe one could just be the amount of points of all the minors).

As for units, just the basic ones for now. Later someone can add Atomic Armor swimming Airborne Tank units.

IMOHO I do not see anything that would have anything to do with TripleAs core. Like I said the only thing that I can think of that would have any effect on the program is the number of units, Types, size of the units and those things that suck up memory, and cpu use.

As for combat multipliers. The only ones I can think of is weather that has a negative effect on defense, we are talking about Night /other conditions that effect sighting and temp (and flying/sea stuff). But I dont see having any of that stuff here at this time.
I don't hate you, just the person that plays you in the real world
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Re: Blitzkrieg published 1965, 1975 by Avalon Hill Company

prastle
Administrator
Actually have the game in a shed somewhere.  ;)

Your not old just seasoned :)

Be cool to play it again.

GL Pras
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Re: Blitzkrieg published 1965, 1975 by Avalon Hill Company

RogerCooper
In reply to this post by HardThunder
There are some inherent difficulties in converting a hex and counter wargame to TripleA.

1. TripleA is an area movement game, Now of course these areas could be hexes and there are some TripleA mods that are hex-based. However, the map of a hex and counter game generally has many more hexes then an area movement game. This will slow play. The high movement allowances will also slow the AI.

2. TripleA uses an individual hit combat system, rather than odds-based system.

3. Blitzkrieg has a stacking limit. TripleA has some support of stacking limits, but the AI does not really handle it.

4. TripleA does not have supply rules. Some mods have workarounds, but they slow the game and are not understood by the AI.

5. TripleA has no rules for ZOC's, advance after combat, flank attacks and the like. Many of thing that make hex & counter games interesting are not supported.

I suggest trying a smaller game than Blitzkrieg first to see if you can resolve these issues. (GDW's Battle for Moscow, reissued by VP Games would be a good one). I suspect that a direct conversion of Blitzkrieg will not be interesting to play.
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Re: Blitzkrieg published 1965, 1975 by Avalon Hill Company

crazy_german
RogerCooper has a really good point, most of the interesting interactions in TripleA come as a result of positioning, and games based on hexes can struggle as a result. A good example is Tactics Campaign, its a balanced game with some room for strategic variety, but its just not very exciting; you can often take your opponent's turn for them because the best move is pretty obvious.

To really get something interesting going you will need some very unconventional combat, I think
Correctly crazy, disingenuously German
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Re: Blitzkrieg published 1965, 1975 by Avalon Hill Company

HardThunder
In reply to this post by RogerCooper
RogerCooper wrote
There are some inherent difficulties in converting a hex and counter wargame to TripleA.

1. TripleA is an area movement game, Now of course these areas could be hexes and there are some TripleA mods that are hex-based. However, the map of a hex and counter game generally has many more hexes then an area movement game. This will slow play. The high movement allowances will also slow the AI.

2. TripleA uses an individual hit combat system, rather than odds-based system.

3. Blitzkrieg has a stacking limit. TripleA has some support of stacking limits, but the AI does not really handle it.

4. TripleA does not have supply rules. Some mods have workarounds, but they slow the game and are not understood by the AI.

5. TripleA has no rules for ZOC's, advance after combat, flank attacks and the like. Many of thing that make hex & counter games interesting are not supported.

I suggest trying a smaller game than Blitzkrieg first to see if you can resolve these issues. (GDW's Battle for Moscow, reissued by VP Games would be a good one). I suspect that a direct conversion of Blitzkrieg will not be interesting to play.
crazy_german wrote
RogerCooper has a really good point, most of the interesting interactions in TripleA come as a result of positioning, and games based on hexes can struggle as a result. A good example is Tactics Campaign, its a balanced game with some room for strategic variety, but its just not very exciting; you can often take your opponent's turn for them because the best move is pretty obvious.

To really get something interesting going you will need some very unconventional combat, I think
I never worked in G-1 or G-5, and those are not my best skills anyway. I am Very good at G-2,3 and 4 (but 4 is very boring to me).

One of the core factors of Blitzkrieg is the building of units, and the balance at the front  you get from doing that. Something TripleA is very good at. Doing this game in any game development system is going to take more code, and cpu use then then original Axis and Allies game, that is just a fact of life.

I have not seen any issues with hexs.
In point of fact I just fixed emptyhexs
imagebam.com 
http://tripleadev.1671093.n2.nabble.com/emptyhexes-map-mod-fixed-tp7593514.html

Even without zone of controls, and forward supply this is not a big deal in my eyes. Stacking does not seem to be that much of an issue. The placement within the game script seems to be the greatest issue.
Battle for Moscow may be a way of playing with scripting options.

imagebam.com imagebam.com 

Battle for Germany would be of more interest to me.

imagebam.com

imagebam.com imagebam.com imagebam.com 

but all of this is hog wash until I/we/it gets the map made. This game has so much room for growth then any other that I know of, and much of the work was completed years ago. Yes the base game take hours of play, but the addition of ships, Airborne, Long Range Fighters/Bombers made the game much more dynamic.


Just having the minor countries build was something that that changed things. Alliances,Guerrillas etc.

I really do not get why so many objections. I am not taking anything from anyone. I am not trying to change the base code, nor have some mod removed. I am not attacking anyone nor their concepts, ideas. Nor am I trying to demean anyone or their "Misconceptions". Nor am I trying to turn a Truck into a pumpkin.

I do that you for the input, and you do bring up some points. Again without a map or a tool to make one these are things/issues that should be address much later.
I don't hate you, just the person that plays you in the real world
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Re: Blitzkrieg published 1965, 1975 by Avalon Hill Company

crazy_german
Im not objecting, just offering some thoughts, making a good looking map takes a long time and I would hate to someone do it only to find out it doesn't work very well. All is intentioned to be helpful. It seems like you have interesting features planned, and my point was just that for hexes you will need something creative for units or the game will be horribly boring (from experience)

TripleA's movement features have a tendency towards certain behaviors. For instance, on that battle of moscow map, my first thought is that the territories on the flanks are much less valuable than the center territories. This is partially because TripleA doesn't do encircling very well, historically its a major part of warfare but in TripleA the encircled army will often be in the better position. Hopefully you can find a way around this.

Also, have you the seen the 2.0 map creator? You might find it more useful since it walks you through the process and explains it better than the first does. I would just pick a map and shove it into the map creator until you are able to play a full game on a map you created
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Re: Blitzkrieg published 1965, 1975 by Avalon Hill Company

HardThunder
crazy_german wrote
Im not objecting, just offering some thoughts, making a good looking map takes a long time and I would hate to someone do it only to find out it doesn't work very well. All is intentioned to be helpful. It seems like you have interesting features planned, and my point was just that for hexes you will need something creative for units or the game will be horribly boring (from experience)

TripleA's movement features have a tendency towards certain behaviors. For instance, on that battle of moscow map, my first thought is that the territories on the flanks are much less valuable than the center territories. This is partially because TripleA doesn't do encircling very well, historically its a major part of warfare but in TripleA the encircled army will often be in the better position. Hopefully you can find a way around this.

Also, have you the seen the 2.0 map creator? You might find it more useful since it walks you through the process and explains it better than the first does. I would just pick a map and shove it into the map creator until you are able to play a full game on a map you created
Encirclement? That is a topic unto its self. And dealing with that is not something that has been a real issue that I recall. I could go a great deal into that , and will in another topic.

Like I said supply, and zones of control are things that would be worked out later (if they can). Those are nice bit that have little to do with the game. The greater issue later would be in making it more fun, speeding up game play, and have those nice little bit that people would like to play with, like Nukes, Godzilla, and  Space Giants.

As for the ---- map maker. First I see nothing about a map maker 2. Next the amount of prep in order to use the thing is not shown in one play. Not in a help file, not in a trash can. I will not go into ---- anyway. If it was so good TripleA would have far more then it does. Most of the maps are reskins with a few script changes, and those that are not are hand coded, one guy even used word or open office. Just because MAC uses that alt key for control does not make it right.
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Re: Blitzkrieg published 1965, 1975 by Avalon Hill Company

crazy_german
https://code.google.com/archive/p/tripleamapcreator/downloads

Try the second map creator here, its generally much better though has a few bugs. You will find it much easier than trying to do a map by hand. You can save your progress part way through, and all you really need to start is a map image (just stick some other maps flags and units in, this part is easy to change). You can't really do a map by hand, the place, centers and baseTiles will take much longer by hand, and the polygons file is impossible without a utility helping you

The goal of the map maker is just to get a map that runs, then you typically want to do the improvements by hand
Correctly crazy, disingenuously German
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Re: Blitzkrieg published 1965, 1975 by Avalon Hill Company

HardThunder
Thank you I will give it a shot in the next 48 hours.

I don't hate you, just the person that plays you in the real world
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Re: Blitzkrieg published 1965, 1975 by Avalon Hill Company

RogerCooper
In reply to this post by HardThunder
Battle for Germany is another classic hex and counter game, but it would need at least to be rescaled or the Russians would just walk through the German line in the East.
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Re: Blitzkrieg published 1965, 1975 by Avalon Hill Company

HardThunder
 
RogerCooper wrote
Battle for Germany is another classic hex and counter game, but it would need at least to be rescaled or the Russians would just walk through the German line in the East.
OK. We/I can work on making it more playable. We would need at lest two versions. One being solo, the other Two/three player. The Germans win if they hold out Berlin to tern x, and others if they take Berlin. At the same time look at working out how to make it more like the Board game.

At the same time work on Blitz/1812. 1812 is about the same thing, hold out to turn x.
I don't hate you, just the person that plays you in the real world