Age of Tribes

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Re: Age of Tribes – Open Beta

Frostion
@ZjelcoP
Ahh yes, that was the problem. It works now. Thx.
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Re: Age of Tribes – Open Beta

crazy_german
In reply to this post by Frostion
Frostion wrote
I see this as a huge AI problem, and have noticed this as well. I can’t believe this is not affecting other maps also.
There are some things to consider here. One is that in your map sea zones are very large and tend to border many land territories, so even the 1 movement ships can threaten a very large area. Most coastal territories have high production values, so if Hellenic or Baltic retreat inland they have basically accepted defeat. Naval or air power is almost always stronger in the long run than land units, and your map is designed for longer games. Bombardment and transport capacity is extremely cheap in this unit structure, maybe too cheap, the cost of building navies relative to armies is unusually low.

Generally speaking in Age of Tribes you pay very little for mobility compared to other maps. If you put this unit structure onto more typical maps, you would likely see pure cavalry armies. On this map I think that cavalry is balanced with other units, due do how the territories are divided. However, the way sea zones are divided enables the power with naval superiority to threaten an enormous area, defending this area requires a much larger amount of troops than attacking it. This also comes back to aircraft, and I still think that some of the aircraft has too much movement.

Side note, I changed the XMLs so that they begin with the combat frontier selected, so the battle calc isn't cluttered on the first turn.
Age_of_Tribes.xml
Age_of_Tribes_Cold_War.xml
Age_of_Tribes_Renaissance.xml
Correctly crazy, disingenuously German
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Re: Age of Tribes – Open Beta

crazy_german
In the most recent Cold War XML, there is no limit on how many nukes can be placed. Is this intentional? I though the max of 1 was a great feature, otherwise I can see everyone building almost pure nukes, and West will probably win just because Britton can launch 20 nukes turn 70 and just kill everything
Correctly crazy, disingenuously German
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Re: Age of Tribes – Open Beta

Frostion
Something must have gone wrong during my ”cleanup process” of the XML.  I might have cleaned too much up. Maybe I removed some stuff. I just noticed that the feature I implemented with the britonic and Slavic providing aid to the minor nations did not work either. Here are some hotfixes:

It is now called v0.1.41
AoTv0141.zip
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Re: Age of Tribes – Open Beta

Frostion
In reply to this post by Frostion
@crazy_german
I have tried to make a new Renaissance start. Not much has changed, except unit starting set in Sweden, two territories in Sweden made Baltic and one territory (west Romania) made roman to compensate the west a little for the loss of the territories/PUs in Sweden.

Now no one has mortars in Sweden to start with, giving time for both Brittonic and Baltic to build up, focus on or ignore Sweden.

I played the new game for nearly 10 rounds. I only played Brittonic and Baltic. I tried to do rational moves for both sides, they of course struggled for dominance in Sweden and the Baltic sea. Here is the version 0.1.42 game xml + save of the game I played:
Age_of_Tribes_Renaissance.xml
FrostionRenaissance0.tsvg

As Baltic I was able to stand my ground for some while, but I eventually fell to the Britonnic invasion. I got help from the Slavic though. They were helping to protect their St. Petersburg territory (Ladogaski).
I played for round 36 to 45 and at the end I think the two sides were a tie, or maybe the east were having the upper hand. At least East wins if I let the AI plays the save game further. When I left, Brittonic was invading upper Russia, but Hattic invading Spain and Baltic could invade Sweden.
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Re: Age of Tribes – Open Beta

crazy_german
Here is a game I played today on your changed XML- CrazyRenaissanceGame.tsvg
Looks like an Eastern victory, but with different dice this game could be very different, I also should have been more aggressive with Germanic. I used a strategy of having Slavic trade as much as possible in the Baltic and Med, whittling down the opponents so that its allies can defeat the main army which worked really well

Baltic and Britt look pretty evenly matched, I can see either side winning. The choice of what to build and whether to invest the tech into land or sea is a tough call. I think its a big improvement

This game did give me concerns that sail ships are too strong though. 5 bombard is really powerful for a 24 PU unit, I like that Navy is cheap enough for any nation to build it if they want, but you get so many special abilities with those cheap ships

Here is a draft of changes I was thinking - PossibleRenStart.xml
I originally had all of Sweden as Baltic, but I think your way is better. I changed to fort and castle layout in africa and the balkans drastically. Before there are multiple bases that will, in a human game, always fall if the enemy chooses to take them. I re positioned those forts so that they won't always fall, which hopefully will compel the other side to try other strategies

Is your intention for this game to be balanced for human players? I do really like that the AI is competitive, but I think balancing decisions should be made based on human play. A big example is Celtic, who has the option to go 100% navy which will easily capture africa and make invading spain a far away dream for Hattic
Correctly crazy, disingenuously German
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Re: Age of Tribes – Open Beta

Frostion
Overall I would like to keep the map start both player vs. player balanced and still taking the AI into consideration. I hope this can be done in a reasonable way. Talking of this, what do you think of the +15 PU to AI on the normal map, +20 PU to AI on Renaissance and +25 PU on Cold War? Is that reasonable? The Renaissance and Cold War gets more PU as there are more tactical stuff that humans can take advantage of, and that the AI can’t handle engine atm.

I am persuaded that the bombard was way too strong. It should not be an über tactical advantage to attack from the sea. Therefore the bombard ability is now reduced much. This will keep Brittonic from wiping out the Baltic in sweeden and/or russia to easily. It might still be the eventual outcome, but it is a bit harder to do now. The same goes for the fighting in Africa. Hopefully this downgrade of bombardment makes defense a bit easyer / less hard.

The Castle that you moved from (let’s call it) Hungary to Venice … I would like to keep the castle in the current place. But I have now removed the fort in Macedonnia. In that fort the Hellenic could build 2 cavalry units that could be part of a potential attack on the castle in round 2. Now I don’t think it is that easy for the Hellenic to focus on capturing the castle in round 2. I have tried a game, with low luck, where I let Hattic only focus on capturing the castle and Romanic only thinking of holding it. It seems that a player would need a bit luck now to both capture and hold it.

I actually like Africa as it is now, but let’s see how the map does with the current changes.

“Celtic, who has the option to go 100% navy which will easily capture africa and make invading spain a far away dream for Hattic”
That might be a way to go for a player, but then the Romanic would be pretty much left to fend for themselves against Hellenic units, probably supported by some Slavic and Hattic. The castle we talked about will be hard to keep. Btw, I am all for players having multiple strategy choices.

I have updated the map download to v0.1.5
• Small changes to the Renaissance map unit and territory start setup.
• The default “AI Bonus Income Flat Rate” is now correctly (as written in notes) set to 15 on the original map, 20 on the renaissance map and 25 on the cold war map.
• Bombardment strength of ships greatly reduced. The d10 bombardment values are now: Sail-Ship bombard from 5 to now 1, Ironclad from 6 to now 2 and Warship from 8 to now 3.
• Added bombard info to the tooltips of the three ships’ “develop unit”.
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Re: Age of Tribes – Open Beta

crazy_german
This post was updated on .
I think the bombard change is much needed. I'll play some games soon

The +15 is reasonable, the AI plays the early game really well. It makes a few poor tech choices, but otherwise its land-oriented nations play almost as well as human. The +20 could maybe be higher. Incomes are much higher in Renaissance so it might need more. The AI can't handle mortars, but the bombardment change will have a massive impact on the balance so its hard to say anything before I have played

Really the Cold War isn't an appropriate choice for the AI IMO, it has too many features it can't understand (especially bombing and nukes). The random tech choices really hurt here. Techs such as battle tank are really weak, while nukes and missile shield are extremely strong.

The Romanic castle is fine either way. One thing I am noticing is whoever controls Scordisci (the central territory in the balkans) is in a really good position and doesn't have much reason to put units anywhere else.
Correctly crazy, disingenuously German
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Re: Age of Tribes – Open Beta

crazy_german
Today I played one of the first Age of tribes games ever in the lobby! Many people were excited by the map and seemed to really enjoy it. Some players were confused by mortar rules though

I also have this save game for you (not the lobby game)-Canal_Working.tsvg
Is the canal working as intended? The west are ready to surrender regardless.

As is, I think Brittonic has to build 4 ships turn 1 or the west will immediately be at a serious disadvantage. If the balts can hold position in Sea Zone 33 and Gothia its too easy for east to shut down any western advances. It also provides a mortar position, which britton can't easily establish. Its crazy how much changing ownership of two territories does. The med is well balanced if Celtic goes heavy navy, which I think they need to. Right now Slavic has a ton of options, Hellenic has some, but most other powers seem very locked into specific actions

Did you remove some brittonic units? If so, I think they could be re-added, if the brits had a larger starting army in the home islands it might help the balance, if britts can't beat Balts the game is really pro-east (I'm not yet convinced though)
Correctly crazy, disingenuously German
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Re: Age of Tribes – Open Beta

Frostion
@crazy_german
“Today I played one of the first Age of tribes games ever in the lobby! Many people were excited by the map and seemed to really enjoy it. Some players were confused by mortar rules though”
Nice! I just hope people are aware of the map being in beta. I would realy like to get my hands on any real human vs. human save games, just to see what people actually does and what strategies they use. Also it would be great to see written feedback or comments. If people post about it somewhere other then this forum, please let me know.

The mortar rules and functil is not really spelled out anywhere else then in the game engine given tooltips/stats of the mortar rounds. I have always thought that they were kind of simple, and that they did not need any further explanation. Maybe I was wrong?

“save game Canal_Working.tsvg”
Yes and no. The Danish channel is at the moment an “own Zealand and Jutland” channel. That is why the “channel chains” all point to Denamrk. Maybe the graphical hint there is not so clear. I would really like the channel to function like “own Zealand and Jutland OR own Zealand and South Sweden”, but this is not possible at the moment. Maybe the engine will change in the future. Here is a thread about it:
http://tripleadev.1671093.n2.nabble.com/Multiple-Canals-Between-2-Sea-Zones-td7590656.html#a7590696

“As is, I think Brittonic has to build 4 ships turn 1 or the west will immediately be at a serious disadvantage. If the balts can hold position in Sea Zone 33 and Gothia its too easy for east to shut down any western advances. It also provides a mortar position, which britton can't easily establish. Its crazy how much changing ownership of two territories does. The med is well balanced if Celtic goes heavy navy, which I think they need to.”
I can see that you’re save games show a tendency to go very navy with both Celtic and Britonnic, and that you want them both to rule the seas (or prevent the east from attacking via sea). I can’t say that predetermines the west to lose, maybe it is a “must” strategy, but I could imaging that the lack of land support given to the Germanic and Romanic makes it pretty impossible for those allies to hold their ground. Do you experience the same?

“Right now Slavic has a ton of options, Hellenic has some, but most other powers seem very locked into specific actions“
I realize that the four middle tribes have much less freedom to do whatever they want, and (Hopefully) they all want to get support from their backing allies. I guess this is just a part of the map. I won’t know what could really change this, or if it actually should change. I guess if the game was played buy four humans, then Brittonic/Germanic would be a player, same goes for Celtic/Romanic and so on.


"Did you remove some brittonic units? If so, I think they could be re-added, if the brits had a larger starting army in the home islands it might help the balance, if britts can't beat Balts the game is really pro-east (I'm not yet convinced though)"
I think I did remove a few units, really can’t remember. I think this start strength question is part of the fine tuning. I will also have to try out some games to determine any changes.

I have begun to look at the Cold War start. The current start is really problematic, so I have experimentet with changing a whole lot. I would like the starting units to be fairly few, and in positions that would not result in all players always rearranging the units the same way after start. Stay tuned. I will post a new Cold War XML when I think I am onto something. If you got the time, then please make your own version (preferably without any territory owner changes, and with the same unit tech level as the current).
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Re: Age of Tribes – Open Beta

crazy_german
"Nice! I just hope people are aware of the map being in beta. I would realy like to get my hands on any real human vs. human save games, just to see what people actually does and what strategies they use. Also it would be great to see written feedback or comments. If people post about it somewhere other then this forum, please let me know."

I told everyone to come by here and post their thoughts. The game itself was a runaway eastern victory, I was playing Hellenic and Hattic, and I was the only person not playing their first game (so its likely a good sign for balance that east won). I don't have a savegame but here is what I remember others doing. They bought tons of cavarly and traded territory quite liberally. Hesitated to spend an entire turns income navy, no one bought riflemen or balloons other than myself. I would consider all the above mistakes due to being newer players, though they are mostly good decisions for tripleA in general.

"I realize that the four middle tribes have much less freedom to do whatever they want, and (Hopefully) they all want to get support from their backing allies. I guess this is just a part of the map. I won’t know what could really change this, or if it actually should change. I guess if the game was played buy four humans, then Brittonic/Germanic would be a player, same goes for Celtic/Romanic and so on."

In a 4 person game that is probably the best way to divide nations. In our game one player was germany and rome, and didn't enjoy playing as 2 weak defensive powers. I would actually say that germany, rome and hellenic all have many options available. Hattic perhaps has the least (poor factory locations). It seems to me like Britts and Balts have their hand forced by opponent's actions because if the naval war is lost that nation will fall very quickly (and it's team will very likely lose).

"I have begun to look at the Cold War start. The current start is really problematic, so I have experimentet with changing a whole lot. I would like the starting units to be fairly few, and in positions that would not result in all players always rearranging the units the same way after start. Stay tuned. I will post a new Cold War XML when I think I am onto something. If you got the time, then please make your own version (preferably without any territory owner changes, and with the same unit tech level as the current)."


Its really awkward to begin a game with 4 turns of peace, makes balancing difficult since I can't tell if my strategy is working or not until combat begins. What compounds this is the unit structure is really unconventional, it isn't necessarily unbalanced but those fast aircraft, huge transport capacity ships and nukes are really different than any other map. The peace really turns me away from this game, I prefer to jump others right into action (I'd guess many other people have the same feeling)
Correctly crazy, disingenuously German
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Re: Age of Tribes – Open Beta

prastle
Administrator
A game save with crazy german and friends.  Great map! multi_rav_tribes.tsvg
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Re: Age of Tribes – Open Beta

crazy_german
Savegame-Renassance_7.tsvg

I played both sides, this convinced me beyond doubt that the East is too strong. If slavic and baltic work together to aggresively take the baltic sea west will lose. Britts and germs just have too few resources available. A similar thing happened in the game prastle posted, where despite Balts and Slavs playing poorly (new players and constant changing leadership) britt cannot make any progress in the baltic. Baltic being able to take and hold Gothia easily and position mortars there gives them a strong position in the baltic sea.

I would like a dev opinion on some odd behavior. There appears to be 2 instances where mortar rounds did not fire (they just died without rolling dice). Germanic combat on turns 44 and 45 against baltic troop in denmark/ hamburg.

There are also some battlecalculator errors. It appears that the battle calc will always use a ship's attack value for calcing bombardment of a land territory, however here the ships use a much lower value. See Britton losing a 100% chance to win battle in norway on turn 43.

Some other issues with suicide units are present. Currently, you can take a mortar round as a casualty to bombardment. They also should not count as 1 HP in the battle calc's stats at the top. I would argue their power shouldn't be listed either, a suicide unit is just a 1 time boost in damage, it is most similar to bombarding ship which currently is not registered in those statistics.

A question is how should mortars be designed. Currently, attacking them with a single unit kills all mortar rounds. This isn't necessarily bad, since it balances out large stacks (you can always choose to lose just 1 unit at most, and that unit has a chance to kill an enemy as well). It also makes sacking a unit to hold a fort or castle possible (Hellenic does this on turn 37 in the save game). The big issue is that a single mortar provides a strong defense against groups of enemy mortars. Once again, this can be reset by just sacking off 1 unit, but its still annoying. Mortars are currently a very strong unit, and correct use and positioning of them is very important.
Correctly crazy, disingenuously German
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Re: Age of Tribes – Open Beta

Frostion
In reply to this post by prastle
@prastle
Thanks for the save. I looked through all the moves and purchases. Interesting. It was clear that the possibilities of the mortar unit was not fully understood/used in the first half of the game. Mainly the unwritten rule: “Always throw any ammunition available towards enemies if possible” and the other current important rule: “bombard enemy mortars and ammunition before they bombard you”.

@crazy_german
“Britts and germs just have too few resources available.”
v0.1.6 is now released and ready for testing. Slavic is now generally 4 PUs poorer and Brittonic 5 PUs stronger. Hopefully this can help the balance slightly.

“britt cannot make any progress in the baltic. Baltic being able to take and hold Gothia easily and position mortars there gives them a strong position in the baltic sea.”
I hope that the balance and the map would not eventually include a mandatory Brittonic strategy that requires the Brittonic to fight for and win the Baltic sea to win the game. It should be possible to also win by a land fight (with the right units and some luck) and win by sending a lot of support to the Germanic mainland and thereby pushing the east back. Or a combination of both strategies. Maybe this is just wishful thinking from my side, I don’t know. I hate games that lock the players to specific strategies. Let’s see if the small v0.1.6 small resource shift (+5 PUs to west and -4 PUs to east) makes any difference.

“I would like a dev opinion on some odd behavior.”
Hmm. I hope a capable dev looks at this thread and the issues you listed.

“Currently, you can take a mortar round as a casualty to bombardment.”
Why should this not be possible? Do you mean naval bombardment? Would it not be logical for bombarding ships to also have a chance to hit kamikaze planes before they lift off?
One thing I do think is strange in the engine rules concerning kamikaze is that (and I tried this out on a WW2 map with Japanese kamikaze planes) Japan can have like 10 kamikaze planes in a territory and the US can attack with 1 infantry, thereby destroying them all (Just like in this Age of Tribes map). A logical rule might be that the 10 planes just suicide defends/attacks one at a time until the enemy is defeated. But maybe this would be against the real board game A&A rules?

“The big issue is that a single mortar provides a strong defense against groups of enemy mortars”
If there were a possibility to set a “kamikaze attack one at a time” option in the XML, it would be great
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Re: Age of Tribes – Open Beta

crazy_german
Frostion wrote
I hope that the balance and the map would not eventually include a mandatory Brittonic strategy that requires the Brittonic to fight for and win the Baltic sea to win the game. It should be possible to also win by a land fight (with the right units and some luck) and win by sending a lot of support to the Germanic mainland and thereby pushing the east back. Or a combination of both strategies. Maybe this is just wishful thinking from my side, I don’t know. I hate games that lock the players to specific strategies. Let’s see if the small v0.1.6 small resource shift (+5 PUs to west and -4 PUs to east) makes any difference.
This map will (I think) have enormous room for multiple strategies. That doesn't mean each individual nation needs to though. No matter what the brits plan to do, having some naval presence in the baltic will be good for them (even if they want to go pure land units into Germany, this is the fastest route to the frontline). Also, a Sail-Ship holding 2 units allows a small army to project force over a much larger area. If I already have troops on the coast in Germany, building a sail-ship is kind of like getting 2 soldiers in Scandinavia. Right now, if you just let the opponent win a naval race in the baltic you will be crushed (as either side)

Looking at the savegame i posted, the Celts took Hellas and then Turkey. This was a win condition for the West, they don't need to win in the Baltic to win overall (they need to hold the strait of Denmark though). It is drastically cheaper to defend against a naval invasion using ships than it is to defend by land, due to large, coastlines and no air available until tech is discovered (footmen + mortars is good for defending a single point, but cannot secure a large coast). I was thinking that brits and germans needed more starting troops, to let them project force a little bit faster. The med is very well done, the west has the advantage if Slavic invests nothing, and both sides have room for different strategies. Even though I would say that Hattic has to go pure navy (with both PUs and Tech) it still has room for flexibility. I will try the changed income version tonight hopefully.

Frostion wrote
“Currently, you can take a mortar round as a casualty to bombardment.”
Why should this not be possible? Do you mean naval bombardment? Would it not be logical for bombarding ships to also have a chance to hit kamikaze planes before they lift off?
One thing I do think is strange in the engine rules concerning kamikaze is that (and I tried this out on a WW2 map with Japanese kamikaze planes) Japan can have like 10 kamikaze planes in a territory and the US can attack with 1 infantry, thereby destroying them all (Just like in this Age of Tribes map). A logical rule might be that the 10 planes just suicide defends/attacks one at a time until the enemy is defeated. But maybe this would be against the real board game A&A rules?
I don't know if this feature was intended more for kamikaze planes or rocket/munition type units. I suppose it isn't totally illogical for bombarding ships to hit an ammo stockpile, but its still weird for gameplay, its the only situation where a mortar round is killed by the enemy (and not itself)
Correctly crazy, disingenuously German
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Re: Age of Tribes – Open Beta

crazy_german
This post was updated on .
The map is gaining popularity in the lobby! Prastle has been pushing players towards it, I was able to play 2 games in the lobby today. To help any newer players get started, and as a way to provide some feedback to Frostion, I have written a brief strategy guide for the Renaissance start (which seems to be most balanced and best choice for a fast game)

EDIT - this guide is outdated, a more up to date guide will be posted shortly. The general tips category is still accurate, other sections especially tech are not.

General tips
The map plays very differently than most other tripleA games, and your experience with tripleA in general might mess you up
            -There are two major naval battles, ignoring either isn't an option
            -Controlling and trading territory aren't as important as they typically are
            -Good positioning and projecting power are what will lead to victory
            -Don't be afraid to build pure navy, other tripleA maps will train you not to but here it makes sense
            -Cavalry might seem extremely strong, but in practice ground mobility isn't that valuable

Tech Choices
            -Your first technology should be either riflemen, carabiners, or ironclads. Tech choices have a large impact
            -Observation balloons and fortresses can be great techs, but are lower priority
            -Rushing to try and get aircraft, trucks or tanks as quickly as possible usually ends badly, however rushing warships is a powerful play
            -Barrage balloons is currently the only really bad tech

Eastern Tribes
            -Slavic can be powerful anywhere but not everywhere. It choices can set up the game
            -You have a ton of viable strategies, plan your allies' moves around where slavic sends its strength
            -Baltic should hit Germanic early on then shift focus to Britton. Build navy early on
            -Baltic has a specific set of plays which I cannot find a way for West to beat (which I'm not sharing)
            -Hellenic and Hattic should work closely together. You can be very aggressive if Slavic supports you
            -Hellenic can build navy and trade troops with Celtic, but Rome will be noticeably stronger
            -Watch out for Celtic moving through the strait of Sicily to invade Greece itself
            -As Hattic, your starting is army is weak, outdated and far from the enemy, but its still very important to use wisely
            -Hattic should build pure navy for several turns no matter the plan is. Don't build another castle in Turkey
            -Africa will fall. You can save the troops, or try to slow down Celtic.
            -In the south, your many strategy options include
                    -take Sicily ASAP, reinforce it heavily and add mortars. If Hattic controls it, build a castle
                    -capture that Roman castle ASAP and pressure Rome by land, threaten to attack Italy and Germany
                    -trade territory aggressively and try to whittle down Rome while racing Celtic at sea
                   
Western Tribes
            -Brittonic has to build 4 ships turn 01. Try to get in Baltic's face but preserve your units
            -Germanic can build anything, even ships isn't as crazy as it seems. Don't lose units to trade minor territories
            -Celtic needs to build navy and conquer Africa. Watch out for the East trying to stack sicily
            -Celtic should balance sending troops to help in Italy and Germany with keeping an offensive army
            -Celtic's economy should be able to win a naval arms race with Hattic, and your starting army is much stronger
            -Rome should work closely with the Celts. Initially Rome is weak but often ends up stronger than Hellenic
            -Sometimes, holding other territory is more important than Rome. You still collect income without it
            -Your northern castle can survive a long time. You can use mortars to destroy buildings that Hellenic captures
Correctly crazy, disingenuously German
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Re: Age of Tribes – Open Beta

captaincrunch
helpful thanks
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Re: Age of Tribes – Open Beta

crazy_german
@captaincrunch, thanks I'm glad it helped you!

@frostion, people are telling me there are some issues with the github download, something about the folder not being formatted correctly. I have tried directing them to use the link here to your google drive but it seems to be bothering some people. You do have plans to submit this map to included in the in-game download list, correct?

There have also been suggestions to revamp the notes section to include clear unit data. Another suggestion is to make the tech tree clearly show who has what technologies. This could be done by making a few territories under the chart image, that place little flag units as part of the tech development triggers.

Here is a human vs human savegame-
Myself as West against Prastle and Maxwell Lord. The more experienced player wins, with East surrendering on turn 40 after West take St.Petersburg and threatens Greece and Turkey. The renaissance start is fairly well balanced, however I think East still holds an advantage (especially if the player is really experienced). There were two moments that moved this game towards the Western Victory, Slavic forgets to reinforce Sicily on turn 38 (I think celtic would have still won the mediteranean, but it would have taken much longer), and sz33 battle on turn 39. This looks like the Britts just were a little bit careless, but I choose to risk that battle (even though its not in my favor), because it stopped the Balts from uniting their scandinavian and german armies. I am finding that Britton often has to take a risky battle like this in order to win; you will lose Scandinavia if the Balts can transport it entire army there unless you build tons of land, in which chase you lose the naval battle and a bloody battle for the Danish straits will begin (see my earlier save for what happens to the West if the Balts get a navy into the North Sea)

I think Baltic begins with too many units, its starting army is larger than Slavic or Celtic, it could also lose 1 base building. Even after combat with Germany, its army is twice Britton's size
Correctly crazy, disingenuously German
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Re: Age of Tribes – Open Beta

Frostion
@crazy_german
I like the idea of a tips and strategy guide for Age of Tribes. Come to think of it, I think every map should have one. It would be kind of cool if the TripleA program had links to strategy guides, maybe in conjunction with the map selection. Maybe in the form of links to editable wiki pages where players could read and contribute?

Could the GitHub wiki pages be able to hold something like this? (Like for example https://github.com/triplea-maps/age_of_tribes/wiki )
Would this allow the map owner to control the guides and “accept” any edits to them?

“people are telling me there are some issues with the github download”

Could this be because the “Download Zip” button at GitHub gives the downloader a zip that contains an ”age_of_tribes-master” dir containing a “map” dir (with the map files) and 4 other GitHub files?
Or is the format thing something else?
I do update this thread’s download every time something is changed, so coming here is a good idea.

”You do have plans to submit this map to included in the in-game download list, correct?”
Yes, and I would see this as “releasing” the map. However, I do not actually know if the map will be downloadable after the next TripleA release, if every map at https://github.com/triplea-maps/ will be in the game (even though some are “beta” or 0.something versions), or if I will somehow have to request it to be included in the downloads section when I feel it is playable.
 
”suggestions to revamp the notes section to include clear unit data.”
I know that the notes are written in a very narrative way, this was intentional. After I learned how to customize tooltip information, my idea was to let the purchase screen tooltips show most of the unit abilities/data in a short and clear form (Help with perfecting this is appreciated). Alternately players could/can use the game’s “i" tooltip feature. I also made the big map decoration scroll like picture to give an overview of the most important unit abilities. I don’t really like the idea of a revamp of the notes, but I constantly think of smaller edits to the notes, also including edits/additions to the sparse unit information. (Help with perfecting this is also appreciated).

"suggestion is to make the tech tree clearly show who has what technologies. This could be done by making a few territories under the chart image, that place little flag units as part of the tech development triggers."
I read you, and it would be cool, but that is just not realistic. I don’t have the time or will to embark on such an endeavor. I think that idea should have been there from the start of map design, or maybe it can be implemented into another map some day. Sorry.

“Here is a human vs human savegame-“
I don’t see the savegame?

“I think Baltic begins with too many units, its starting army is larger than Slavic or Celtic, it could also lose 1 base building. Even after combat with Germany, its army is twice Britton's size”
I will have so study and test this a bit, and give it some thought. Thanks for the feedback. Please post the savegame.
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Re: Age of Tribes – Open Beta

crazy_german
I can't help with any questions about github. Out of curiosity, do you see anything in that guide you  disagree with (I did write it while drinking )

Here is the save I forgot to upload -CG_versus_Max_and_Pras.tsvg

For the notes, I would stick something at the end that explains all property list choices (for example, partial amphibious retreat=false), which is information players need to know
Correctly crazy, disingenuously German
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